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Author Topic: Opinions welcome... check below on thread.....  (Read 3619 times)

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Offline Dk0311USMC

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Opinions welcome... check below on thread.....
« on: September 04, 2011, 11:03:12 pm »
I just bought this lot of Athens tetradrachms.  I think I am definatly going to hang onto the top right one and maybe one other.  I will be looking at re-selling a couple. I think im going to get some coins together and see about sending some to Forvm!    I really have no idea though how much the 2 lower quality ones could reasonably go for...

Offline Dino

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Re: Just bought this lof of athens tetradrachms.
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2011, 08:24:18 am »
If you are thinking of xonsigning with Joe, shoot him an email with a pic. Im sure he will give you an estimate of how much to list the coin.

Offline Dk0311USMC

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Re: Just bought this lof of athens tetradrachms.
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2011, 12:08:18 pm »
I need to get a few coins in order. I'm still waiting to get the owls in hand, then I think ill see about doing a few coins.

Offline Dk0311USMC

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Re: Just bought this lof of athens tetradrachms.
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2011, 05:59:09 pm »
Anyone have any idea about the countermark an Athena's cheek on the top left coin???

Lloyd Taylor

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Re: Just bought this lof of athens tetradrachms.
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2011, 11:15:50 pm »
The attached may help.  Its from Peter van Alfen's paper Owls from the 1989 Syria Hoard AJN 14 (2002) pp 1-57 and also in his other paper in the same publication Two unpublished hoards and other owls from Egypt pp 59-71.

On the cheek of the uppermost left Athena I can recognize van Alfen counter mark 41 and you may be able to identify others although the resolution of the image is insufficient for me to do so.

These counter marks are typical of circulation within areas under Persian administration.  The overall appearance of tests cuts and counter marks on your coins, suggests to me circulation in Syria/Levant rather than Egypt.  In Egypt heavy punch marks particularly van Alfen 1 & 3 tend to dominate and often occur in multiples on a single coin as well as multiple heay test cuts. The Syrian Persian administration generally appears to have been less agressive in punch marking, counter marking and cutting and this is why I tend towards a circulation for the coins you have posted in Syria/Levant.  I suspect all coins in the lot came from the same hoard.

To get a feel for this subjective assessment you should read van Alfens papers and review the many accompanying plates.  AJN 14 can be bought quite cheaply from many booksellers and the ANS if you are interest in pursuing it further.


Lloyd Taylor

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Re: Just bought this lof of athens tetradrachms.
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2011, 11:25:05 pm »
Overlooked mentioning that van Alfen counter mark 4 (really a punch mark) is present on the reverse of the same coin.

Offline Dk0311USMC

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Re: Just bought this lof of athens tetradrachms.
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2011, 11:53:03 pm »
Lloyd thank you very much for taking the time to break these down for me.   It is a little difficult for me to examine it further also because I am still waiting to receive them.
At first thought I was thinking the countermarks on top left Athena might have been one punch showing a script or different symbols.  The symbol you pointed out as #41, is that the center one of 3 that looks like the end of a crescent wrench? I suppose the other 2 then would be separate individual countermarks then?

Lloyd Taylor

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Re: Just bought this lof of athens tetradrachms.
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2011, 12:04:43 am »
The symbol you pointed out as #41, is that the center one of 3 that looks like the end of a crescent wrench? I suppose the other 2 then would be separate individual countermarks then?

Yes - its not exactly the same but as close as I could get (looking at it again it might be a variation on no.29).  I think it is meant to be a stylized palm, but who knows? And yes those on either side are separate counter marks which you have a chance of making out when you get the coin in hand. Some details evident in the photo but insufficient to determine if there is a match to any of van Alfen's catalog from the 1989 Syrian Hoard.  I am always looking for an example of counter mark 39 - looks like a cartoon dinosaur to me, or had these guys already discovered Australia and the kangaroo?!  8)

Now tell me what no. 37 is?

Offline Dk0311USMC

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Re: Just bought this lof of athens tetradrachms.
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2011, 04:19:51 am »
37 definitely looks like a dinosaur wearing a cabbie hat. I think 39 looks like some sort of cartooned mask.  I couldn't help but notice number 42 a decapitated chicken standing there. And 34 is a bowtie.

Offline Dk0311USMC

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Re: Just bought this lof of athens tetradrachms.
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2011, 04:28:21 am »
One more, it also looks like the ancients discovered radioactivity in #32.

Lloyd Taylor

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Re: Just bought this lof of athens tetradrachms.
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2011, 04:49:45 am »
All quite weird when you think about it... must have been some ancient hallucinogenic in the food chain!

Offline areich

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Re: Just bought this lof of athens tetradrachms.
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2011, 04:56:17 am »
37 is a plush toy that's a mixture of elephant and stegosaurus.
Andreas Reich

Offline Dk0311USMC

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Re: Just bought this lof of athens tetradrachms.
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2011, 08:19:55 pm »
37 is a plush toy that's a mixture of elephant and stegosaurus.

That must be proof that a time machine will be invented and someone brought a modern toy back to ancient times, and it was worshiped as a god.

Sorry... I recently watched an episode of ancient aliens on the History Channel.   I love the history channel, but sometimes they can get some really crazy people on there.   If anyone has ever watched Ancient aliens on there and is versed in history, its interesting to watch these people try and explain that everything that is mysterious about our past is due to aliens. 

Lloyd Taylor

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Re: Just bought this lof of athens tetradrachms.
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2011, 08:24:44 pm »
...its interesting to watch these people try and explain that everything that is mysterious about our past is due to aliens.  

No 33 a stack of landing guidance lights for UFO's proves the point! ;D Not to mention the rocket nose cone on 21.

Offline Dk0311USMC

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Re: Just bought this lof of athens tetradrachms.
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2011, 08:31:51 pm »
24 obviously depicts the distinct eye of an alien.

Lloyd Taylor

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Re: Just bought this lof of athens tetradrachms.
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2011, 08:43:02 pm »
24 obviously depicts the distinct eye of an alien.
or the profile outline of ET's head when he is lying down?

Offline Reid Goldsborough

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Re: Just bought this lof of athens tetradrachms.
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2011, 03:37:25 pm »
This is one of the funniest threads I've ever read. Ancient aliens indeed.  :) The group of coins that initiated the merriment, incidentally, looks to be one of those from Bassem Daou of Lebanon. I hope I'm allowed to say that. I never know sometimes what we're allowed to talk about here and what will get deleted. Interesting issues related to him, but I'll await to see whether this is permitted before continuing. I Know this is supposed to like talking inside the coin shop of a dealer. At the local coin shop I have hung out at a lot over the past decade we've had some really spirited, free-ranging, and open conversations, including some with criticism of numismatics, with customers there looking to buy often joining in. All part of the interest. The owner reminds me of Kerry Wetterstrom, editor of the Celator, both really nice guys secure in their skin (unlike me  :) ). Off on a tangent here. I think I was just abducted by an alien.
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Offline Dk0311USMC

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Re: Just bought this lof of athens tetradrachms.
« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2011, 06:38:01 pm »
Ok, I got the coins....   Here is a better pic of the countermarks in question.  I may get scolded by some, but I cleaned them up a bit by doing the aluminum foil, baking soda and warm water trick to remove a lot of the black tarnish on a couple.  In my opinion they look a lot better.  If it were nice toning vs black junk, I would have given it a second thought.

Offline Dk0311USMC

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Re: Just bought this lof of athens tetradrachms.
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2011, 09:21:54 pm »
So, im curious for anyones opinion on which of these two coins would you rather keep?   The coin on the right has a better looking Athena and also I think it has a little better overall looking owl on the reverse, minus the patched eye look from the punch. If it wasn't for that one punch mark, that would be a very nice looking owl.  The one thing that intrigues me though about the one on the left is the various countermarks on Athena's cheek.  I think I'm leaning more towards keeping the one on the right but the other is still calling to me.

What do you guys think??

Offline Dino

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Re: Opinions welcome... check below on thread.....
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2011, 10:47:20 pm »
I'd keep the one with all the countermarks.  I mean what a conversation piece.  Reminds me of one of those old pieces of luggage with the stickers from all over the world on it.  Very interesting coin!  Frankly, it's one of those coins you're going to want to keep even if you wind up buying  a better preserved owl later.

Offline casata137ec

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Re: Opinions welcome... check below on thread.....
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2011, 11:34:01 pm »
I am with Dino. The left coin is much more interesting to me even though she looks like Stallone at the end of the first "Rocky" movie!  ;D

Chris
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Offline mihali84

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Re: Opinions welcome... check below on thread.....
« Reply #21 on: September 26, 2011, 01:56:56 am »
I agree with Dino and Chris about the coin on the left, because of it's great counter-marks.  I bought my first Owl because of the interesting counter-mark on it, they add great character to the coin.  I still keep my eyes open for another with the same counter-mark, none yet, but i have the rest of my life and i am in no rush  ;D

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Offline cicerokid

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Re: Opinions welcome... check below on thread.....
« Reply #22 on: September 26, 2011, 04:14:58 am »


LEFT.
Timeo Danaos afferentem coronas

Offline Dk0311USMC

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Re: Opinions welcome... check below on thread.....
« Reply #23 on: September 26, 2011, 01:28:00 pm »
Wow so far everyone is for the left one. My intention when I bought the lot was to keep the best looking one of the bunch, then I got stuck with this delema.  I am the type of collector that collects usually only one coin of a certain type or person, then I move on to my next coin on the wish list, excluding uncleaned coins where you don't know what you're going to get.

This one is tough...

Offline rover1.3

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Re: Just bought this lof of athens tetradrachms.
« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2011, 02:44:37 pm »
So, im curious for anyones opinion on which of these two coins would you rather keep?

Both are unattractive to my eyes, but since these are yours and you are the one who will keep one of these two,
better ask yourself what you like more and decide accordingly.

The key to successful/rewarding collecting, is to collect what you like and/or find interesting...

Best regards,

rover

 

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