Ancient Mint Maps

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n.igma:

--- Quote from: Altamura on February 03, 2021, 03:18:06 am ---
--- Quote from: n.igma on February 02, 2021, 09:41:43 pm ---... The ANS MANTIS database has the same functionality for all coinages and times (click on MAPS for the drop down menu) ... (a couple example of MANTIS attached below) ...
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But with many wrong and missing mints :(.

Two Greek mints in the UK ???
No coins minted under the Romans in Trier ???

Again there are some severe problems with the data quality in these ANS systems :-\.

Regards

Altamura

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Not an integrity problem. Rather, it is an issue of classification and the source of the data, which is old long established collections.

Early scholars classified Celtic coinages of the 1st Century BC in the "Greek" oeuvre which they clearly imitated.

For example if you refer to Sear GCV I Europe nos 154-189 from the BM you will see British attribution. This classification remains in tact in the collections of the BM and ANS. You may disagree, but its not a data quality issue in the database, simply a matter of definition of "Greek"!

All databases are imperfect and that is a fact of life.

More so, in the case of numismatic databases built on collections assembled over a century or more, during which time definitions and even attributions may have changed. Moreover, built as they are on old collections with little or new material being added in the last fifty years due to cultural heritage laws they are missing many new types, newly identified mints and re-attributions.

It is wise to be less critical of the database and more attentive to these aspects when using any database.

Certainly, it is naive in the extreme to assume any database is perfectly constructed in a manner that correlates with your view of a subject material.

Databases are the starting point for any analysis, not the end point, and need to be interrogated prudently and wisely with full knowledge of the subject material.

Used in this prudent way they are a great resource and a major step forward from the days when coins were simply deposited in basement coin cabinets, essentially hidden from view, and inaccessible to the public.

The interactive data analysis tools attached to the databases such as the Maps functionality are simply a first pass at screening the material in any research and make it easy for the researcher to get a feel for the aspect under interrogation and whether it is worth pursuing further in detailed analysis.

In my opinion these portals provided by the ANS for open access research by independent scholars are a fantastic new resource that open a vast array of previously inaccessible material for study, and all from the comfort of your lounge! And it is all all funded by donations supported by volunteers, so don't be hypercritical of the opportunity provided to you for true numismatic research.

Arm chair critics abound, genuine researchers less so. As the old saying goes "Those who can do, those who can't talk about it" and so it is with databases and their users.

Altamura:

--- Quote from: n.igma on February 03, 2021, 09:46:06 pm ---... Early scholars classified Celtic coinages of the 1st Century BC in the "Greek" oeuvre which they clearly imitated. ...
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This does perhaps explain it, but doesn't solve the problem :-\. But in some sense you are right: It is a classification problem.

Meanwhile I found out that the ANS obviously classifies all their Celtic coins as Greeks (and the Berlin collection does it similarly). But is this state of the art? And do the users know that? The description of the database you get is quite meager :-\.

Todays numismatists don't consider Celtic coins to be Greek and therefore many users will fall into this trap. And in such a database I do not expect the classifications from centuries ago but those of today. Otherwise while searching I would have to know at what time a certain coin had been classified how by whom :-\.
And by the way: There are Celtic coins which not "clearly imitated" Greek ones, and there are a lot of Roman coins which clearly did but are classified as "Roman" :).
And so it is perhaps no longer appropriate that Celtic coinage is subsumed under "Greek". Even if this is the tradition, at some point it is time for a change :).

--- Quote from: n.igma on February 03, 2021, 09:46:06 pm ---... All databases are imperfect and that is a fact of life. ...
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Nice try for an excuse :). Nearly everything is imperfect, but this should not prevent us from trying to make it better.

--- Quote from: n.igma on February 03, 2021, 09:46:06 pm ---... It is wise to be less critical of the database and more attentive to these aspects when using any database.

Certainly, it is naive in the extreme to assume any database is perfectly constructed in a manner that correlates with your view of a subject material. ...
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(Thanks for calling me naive in the extreme, I appreciate that ;).) But to avoid that, the user should know what is in and what not. If you don't have a specification you judge against your expectation. That's also a fact of life :).

--- Quote from: n.igma on February 03, 2021, 09:46:06 pm ---... Used in this prudent way they are a great resource and a major step forward ...
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I don't doubt this in any way, but a bit more of explanation and communication would help to adjust expectations and to avoid frustration or even distrust.

--- Quote from: n.igma on February 03, 2021, 09:46:06 pm ---... Arm chair critics abound, genuine researchers less so. As the old saying goes "Those who can do, those who can't talk about it" and so it is with databases and their users. ...
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(Thanks again for the compliments ;).)
Those who can implement databases usually don't need them, and those needing them usually cannot implement them. So they have to talk :).

Regards

Altamura

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