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Author Topic: Very nice lead seal from Rome?  (Read 2505 times)

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Very nice lead seal from Rome?
« on: June 23, 2012, 09:35:10 am »
Very nice lead seal from Rome?

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-83120
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=4009

Two victoria and Face to Face two bust ( may be Constantine -II and Crispus )

Some letter " CONS...) are visible in the left side as " legend" down are Lion

I hope  a Siscia mint but I'm not sure

:)) ??? ???


regards

 quadrans
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TRPOT

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Re: Very nice lead seal from Rome?
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2012, 09:39:59 am »
Does lead ever get a patina like that? I always see white civil war bullets but maybe it depends on where the lead is buried.

Offline Gert

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Re: Very nice lead seal from Rome?
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2012, 09:51:40 am »
That is quite a spectacular seal. Can you post a bigger picture to better judge the portraits?
Regards
Gert

Offline Akropolis

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Re: Very nice lead seal from Rome?
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2012, 09:52:53 am »
A perfectly normal patina for ancient lead seals.
It appears to be a Roman emperor on the right, with diadem and an empress on the left
I think I see "TRAN..Q" on the left.
My guess is that it represents Gordian III and "TRANQ"uillina
PeteB

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Re: Very nice lead seal from Rome?
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2012, 09:58:10 am »
OK The biggest pic are ::

quadrans
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TRPOT

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Re: Very nice lead seal from Rome?
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2012, 10:01:27 am »
A perfectly normal patina for ancient lead seals.
PeteB

Thanks, I was just curious. Perhaps the soil in the southern US is what makes the lead bullets so white.

Offline Vincent

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Re: Very nice lead seal from Rome?
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2012, 11:42:43 am »
Exceptional find and interesting scence. Looks like one bust is bare headed and the other laurel. Hard to date and looks to have been a celebration of some Victory. If it is TRAN for Tranquillina as suggested, is it her father, pratorian prefect Timisitheus , depicted? He did campaign in the East against the Persians. Just a thought and hopefully you'll get more input.

Offline Gert

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Re: Very nice lead seal from Rome?
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2012, 12:22:09 pm »
Thanks for the photo! Unfortunately, even with a higher resolution the letters are very hard to read. Could also be [CON]STAN. In any case, I think this seal is 4th century and that it depicts an Augustus and a Caesar (bareheaded). I don't think an empress would be depicted being crowned by a Victory.
Regards
Gert

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Re: Very nice lead seal from Rome?
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2012, 01:01:21 pm »
Thank you Gert  and all

quadrans
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Offline Gert

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Re: Very nice lead seal from Rome?
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2012, 03:17:14 pm »
I checked Leukel and Moneta Nigra for your seal, and couldn't find it there. But really, that doesn't say much because a good reference work for Roman seals is still lacking. Although the lion is a strange addition for Constantinian iconography (contrary to the Tetrarchy), I think the portrait style can't be dated earlier than the 4th century.
For comparison, in addition to the seals in Leukel, here's a lead seal of a Constantinian Caesar from my own collection.
-------
Roman lead seal of Constantine II Caesar AD 317-337
CONSTANTINVS IVN NOB.C; laureate bust right
Victory advancing left, holding palm branch and wreath
13mm; 3.08g; very fine
Apparently unpublished, but cf. Leukel 74 for a seal of Constantine II with a draped bust and Victory advancing right.

Found Netherlands, Zuid-Limburg, Heerlen, near the German border.
--------
Regards
Gert

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Re: Very nice lead seal from Rome?
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2012, 05:48:40 pm »
Thank you very much  Gert , to this nice additional information.
I already more than ten of his years I tried to confirm the its identity, but till now unsuccessfully.
Best regards.

quadrans
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Offline v-drome

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Re: Very nice lead seal from Rome?
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2012, 03:54:15 am »
I thought there were some interesting parallels on this gem to the
design on this very nice lead seal.  Any other information on this type would be welcome.



Roman Gem Stone
Caesarea Maritima
Facing busts of Emperor and
Empress (correction: Sol and Luna), with crescent.
Fortuna? (corr: Concordia) to each side, lion below,
bucranium, between paws. Green Jasper with
red inclusions (Heliotrope). 10x9 mm. The style
of the portraits may suggest a connection to coins
of 2nd-3rd century CE.  There are no examples of this
type listed in Anit Hamburger's "Gems from Caesarea Maritima"
Atiqot English Series, Vol. VIII, 1968

ginolerhino2

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Re: Very nice lead seal from Rome?
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2012, 06:43:52 am »
Very interesting. On the gem from Caesarea the feminine bust is on a crescent, this means the masculine bust must be radiated : an imperial couple, no doubt. The emperor looks bearded, and the empress' hairdress looks like Faustina junior's.

On the lead seal, it seems to me that the emperor's hair looks more like Constantine and his sons'. He does not seem laureate, but rather diademed. I am not sure it is an empress facing him, it could be a young Caesar, w/o diadem. Early 4th C? Could the legend be the name of the owner of the seal, rather than an imperial name? I know very little about Roman sigillography...

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Re: Very nice lead seal from Rome?
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2012, 11:19:36 am »
@ v-drome: that is a very nice gem. The design is similar, but I think it is a century or two older than the seal. I am not convinced at all that it is an imperial couple in the middle. The obvious identification is sun and moon. The lion below is holding a bucranium, which is a very common theme on personal ring stones, as is the figure of Concordia. Is it yours?
@ ginolerhino2, you arrive at the same conclusion as I had a couple of posts ago. As for the name, that would be the emperor's or caesar's name.
Regards
Gert


Offline Joe Geranio

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Re: Very nice lead seal from Rome?
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2012, 02:24:24 am »
Thanks for posting and nice usage of the Gem!!
CCAESAR

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Re: Very nice lead seal from Rome?
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2012, 01:03:17 pm »
Hi all'

I say thank you for the interest and the comments to everybody very much.

Regards
quadrans
All the Best :), Joe
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