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Author Topic: Help ID'ing this coin I found in the junk bin of my LCS.  (Read 296 times)

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Offline Anthony D3

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Help ID'ing this coin I found in the junk bin of my LCS.
« on: June 08, 2023, 12:24:27 am »
Hello :)

https://imgur.com/a/4fNbX0Y

I found this in the junk bin of my LCS, but I've yet to figure out a good ID for it. I dont know the provenance of the coin, and there is also a chance that it's a fake/souvenir piece, but it was cheap so it's pretty low-stakes. It is about 20mm in diameter.

The closest matches I've seen are one's that feature radiate Helios on the obverse but I've yet to find anything that is a good match. The reverse is maybe a gryphon or a prancing horse? I havent found a match, however.

I've asked on the ancient coins subreddit and they told me I might have some luck asking here. Let me know if you need any different photos. Thanks again <3

Offline Mark Fox

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Re: Help ID'ing this coin I found in the junk bin of my LCS.
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2023, 10:56:46 am »
Dear Anthony D3 and Board,

If you could be so kind and are able, please provide the diameter (in millimeters) and weight (in grams) of your coin, which on initial glance, looks possibly ancient.  For photos, I would also appreciate another shot of the obverse, as clear as you can get of the right side where there appears to be the remnants of a legend

The reverse, by the way, possibly depicts a griffin/gryphon, a mythological beast associated with Apollo (his chariot was pulled by them), who sometimes was equated in turn with Helios (since they both had power over the sun).   

Hope this helps a little.


Best regards,

Mark Fox
Michigan

Offline Mark Fox

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Re: Help ID'ing this coin I found in the junk bin of my LCS.
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2023, 12:31:34 pm »
Hello again Anthony and Board,

Never mind, I found a match!  See Series 98a on page 59/plate 59 of Clive Stannard's "The local coinages of central Italy in the late Roman Republic, Provisional Catalogue, October 2007":

https://www.academia.edu/33049903/THE_LOCAL_COINAGES_OF_CENTRAL_ITALY_IN_THE_LATE_ROMAN_REPUBLIC_Provisional_Catalogue_2007

In the process, I also discovered that this supposed Sestus issue on Corpus Nummorum is also a Central Italian/bronze of the Pompeian pseudomint!

https://www.corpus-nummorum.eu/coins/7344

The type is illustrated also on plate 59 of Stannard's catalog.

   
Best regards,

Mark Fox
Michigan 

P.S.:  My apologies.  I just noticed that you had already suspected the reverse creature was a possible griffin...
P.P.S.:  ...and provided the coin's diameter.  I guess I wasn't paying attention too well!   

Offline Anthony D3

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Re: Help ID'ing this coin I found in the junk bin of my LCS.
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2023, 05:16:53 pm »
Oh wow Mark, youre amazing!!! I've been trying forever to find a match! And sorry about the confusion, but im glad the clues and details in the original post got you there in the end! Thanks so much for your help <3 <3 

Offline Anthony D3

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Re: Help ID'ing this coin I found in the junk bin of my LCS.
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2023, 06:27:20 pm »
I've spent some time reading that catalog now, but I still have a question, and I'm not sure if I'm reading it right. So are the coins minted in central Italy, or in Hispania Baetica, or both? I think (if I'm reading it correctly) the author is saying that the coins are likely minted in central Italy but are using Baetic motifs from existing Baetic lead coins  and are intended for trade in Baetica?

Sorry if this question is kinda dumb, I'm not well versed in any classical studies and so the academic language from the catalog is a bit above my current knowledge. I hope to learn more though, so please if you or anyone else knows, let me know :)

Offline Mark Fox

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Re: Help ID'ing this coin I found in the junk bin of my LCS.
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2023, 08:09:22 pm »
Dear Anthony and Board,

Not dumb at all.  And, although you have not interpreted Stannard's research completely correct, I think you are grasping the basic idea already.  Bravo!  The background information on the coins given in his catalog is very condensed, because that was not the goal of the paper.  The catalog was, which in 2007, was the culmination of many years of research.  Before and since then, Stannard has published many papers on the Central Italian puzzle/drama that dive far deeper into the purpose and historical context of the coins (i.e. the whens, whys, and hows).  So you have a lot more reading to do!

https://warwick.academia.edu/CliveStannard

Simply put (as I understand the situation), "west-central Italy suffered from an acute insufficiency of small change, from the mid second century BC to the Principate."  The response of the affected people was very much like during similar episodes of coin shortages in history---mint your own coins!  But another solution was the importation of bronze coinage from other places, including Hispania Baetica, from which the pseudomints of Central Italy derived some of their minting inspiration (or lack thereof).  It really is a fascinating topic, with a very exotic blend of numismatic iconography!             

Hope this helps and while I do truly commend your curiosity, I must also warn you that if you fall down the hole, you may not be able to get back out!

 
Best regards,

Mark Fox
Michigan   

 

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