Classical Numismatics Discussion
  Welcome Guest. Please login or register. 10% Off Store-Wide Sale Until 2 April!!! Explore Our Website And Find Joy In The History, Numismatics, Art, Mythology, And Geography Of Coins!!! Expert Authentication - Accurate Descriptions - Reasonable Prices - Coins From Under $10 To Museum Quality Rarities Welcome Guest. Please login or register. 10% Off Store-Wide Sale Until 2 April!!! Explore Our Website And Find Joy In The History, Numismatics, Art, Mythology, And Geography Of Coins!!! Support Our Efforts To Serve The Classical Numismatics Community - Shop At Forum Ancient Coins

New & Reduced


Author Topic: Looking for Opinions on Photo Tests  (Read 482 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Virgil H

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1404
Looking for Opinions on Photo Tests
« on: May 06, 2023, 08:41:10 pm »
My coin photography has had issues for two basically separate issues. One is my camera, the other is lighting. I at first thought my cell phone would work well, but the cameras on those things are awful, with zooming artifacts, etc. I am back to using my digital SLR without a macro lens. I cannot really afford one or maybe I should say I am not willing to spend my limited money on one. Right now, I am trying to make the SLR work. Major issues there are having to crop out 80% of every shot that results is a photo that is smaller than I would like and focusing is both critical and difficult.

With that background, I bought a set of bulbs for my photo stand that has arms for lights and a hookup for the camera. These bulbs can be controlled and used at 25%, 50%, and 100%. There are options for Warm, Cold, and White lights. It can get more nuanced than that, but I tried a few tests using 100% and each of the three settings. I tried to lower the camera for another set of tests that I discarded because the lighting arms just don't work as well with the bulbs when lowered to a height where I can get a better focus. I am thinking about trying external bulb holders, but I am afraid the camera will get in the way.

First picture is the bulb, they come in a set.

Second photo is 100% and Warm - A
Third photo is 100% and Cold - B
Fourth photo is 100% and White - C

All photos were processed in post to crop and adjust levels to get the image to look as best as I can while trying to get the coin to have accurate color. All the photos require adjustments, for me, that is almost always Levels. The white paper background color reflected the light of the bulb color selected until I adjusted things.
Anyway, what do you think? Are these acceptable photos? Which one looks best? This is an AR Republican that is pretty accurately depicted. The coin as far as color is probably best with B and C, but I still can't decide. I will try a bronze next.

Thanks for any input.

Virgil

Offline Jay GT4

  • Tribunus Plebis 2021
  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 6987
  • Leave the gun, take the Canoli!
Re: Looking for Opinions on Photo Tests
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2023, 10:27:23 pm »
If you're going for just color, to me B looks best.  I think you can get a sharper image though.

Offline Virgil H

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1404
Re: Looking for Opinions on Photo Tests
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2023, 10:44:45 pm »
Thanks Jay. Yeah focusing is super hard with the tiny object I can barely see in the viewfinder. I have been using manual focus as auto seems worse. Maybe I can find a macro lens on eBay or something because that is what I really need and I know it. :) I like these lights, though.

Virgil

Offline shanxi

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 3032
    • My gallery
Re: Looking for Opinions on Photo Tests
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2023, 04:10:55 am »
Thanks Jay. Yeah focusing is super hard with the tiny object I can barely see in the viewfinder.

For a DSLR, you can probably find software from the manufacturer that allows you to connect the camera to a PC or laptop.  Focusing is then easier on the big screen. Focus at open aperture, but shoot with aperture 8 or 11 for more depth of field

Offline Virgil H

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1404
Re: Looking for Opinions on Photo Tests
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2023, 10:09:45 am »
That is an interesting possibility. I will look into it. My DSLR is pretty old (~15 years), but it does have an old style USB type port (that port may have a different name I can't think of). Thanks for the suggestion.

Virgil

Offline Virgil H

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1404
Re: Looking for Opinions on Photo Tests
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2023, 02:12:10 pm »
Ralf,
Looks like my camera is a generation too old (2005) to have this option. A couple years later, Canon started provided this "Live View" option.

Also, to Jay, I forgot to ask, when you say I could get better pictures, I just assumed you were talking about focus, but did you mean something else, such as lighting? I should have asked before, but just thought of it. The raw images all needed more post processing than I expected, they were a bit dark even with the bright lights on them.

Thanks both of you for the feedback.

Virgil

Offline Ron C2

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1055
  • Qvod perierat adhvc exstat nvmmorvm
Re: Looking for Opinions on Photo Tests
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2023, 10:53:55 pm »
B looks best but is not sharp enough an image for my taste. 

 I know you feel you can't afford a macro lens, but consider reading up on reversing manual lenses for macro shots and see if your camera can do that with a cheap adaptor.  Might be a reasonable budget fix.
My Ancient Coin Gallery: Click here

R. Cormier, Ottawa

Offline Virgil H

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1404
Re: Looking for Opinions on Photo Tests
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2023, 01:00:52 am »
I am going to update this in case anyone has more suggestions or maybe is going through similar travails. It really is frustrating trying to get decent coin photos when 1) I am a photographer and have prided myself as such for decades (obviously not a macro photographer) and 2) When I see so many others who are creating great coin photos, not just dealers and pros in the business. Why can't I do it? So some additional thoughts.

As noted above, my old camera does not have a computer connection capability. I think this would be a super nice feature.

I ordered a cheap set of extension tubes, which I believe is what Ron was suggesting or something similar. My biggest worry with what I got is I will easily break them. Their manufacture quality reflects their price. Otherwise, they do what they are supposed to do, allow me to focus closer than the lens by itself will allow. And they were super cheap to the point of it not mattering a bit if they didn't work at all. Especially compared to a real macro lens for my camera (Canon mount).

My tests revealed I could get a photo as good or a bit better than what I posted in the OP. Still not good enough. The only advantage is I can fill the frame more. I am not going to post any of these here because I know they still aren't good enough.

I think I have figured out that my biggest problem is getting a crisp focus. It is a bit easier to get focus with the tubes because I can see more coin. The field of focus is, of course, super narrow. But, still not good enough. I think the biggest issue I really have is the camera's focus screen is just not good enough. The camera itself is a Canon, but a low end SLR. I think the focus has always been this hard and perhaps not even truly possible to get the detail I need for coins. It just never mattered before. My old film cameras, Nikon and Nikkormat, had split focus screens that are more precise.

So, even buying a true macro lens would probably not solve the problem. Part of it is the focus screen and part of it is my old eyes. I am very sensitive to lack of light and need a lot of it or I think it is way too dark (I have cataracts, but not at a level requiring surgery). What I think is normal lighting others think is floodlights. Plus, I can't see without glasses and this gets progressively worse over time. Here is where the computer hookup would really be helpful. In any case, at least all this testing and trying cheap remedies has saved me from dropping a few hundred on a macro lens when I am not sure that would solve my problems.

I am going to start looking at maybe a newer camera. Or something that isn't pure junk that will allow me to see my image on the computer. If you were going to buy something for coin photography and not totally break the bank, what would you recommend? I know some folks like smartphones, but I haven't really liked the digital artifacts I have seen introduced, especially with zooming, although at first I thought the smartphone had solved my issues. Plus, good smartphones aren't inexpensive. Is there a camera out there that "specializes" in macro, again, without being super expensive? This is one on those things I am starting to get obsessed with because I really want to solve my problems that have been existing with my attempts at photographing coins since I first tried to do it. But it has also never been high on my budget priority list because coin photos are used pretty much only for my gallery.

Thanks all,
Virgil

Offline Ron C2

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1055
  • Qvod perierat adhvc exstat nvmmorvm
Re: Looking for Opinions on Photo Tests
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2023, 07:19:59 am »
If you are going to start over and it's for coin photography, look at Olympus pen cameras in the micro 4/3 format paired with their 60mm macro lens. This would be a 120mm macro equivalent in full frame.

On a budget look at a used e-pl8, or if you have more to spend, a used e-pl10 or e-m1 series camera are better choices with more resolution.

Don't buy the cheaper 30mm macro lens for coins, it doesn't leave enough room between lens and coin for proper lighting. Get the 60mm.
My Ancient Coin Gallery: Click here

R. Cormier, Ottawa

Offline Virgil H

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1404
Re: Looking for Opinions on Photo Tests
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2023, 02:43:23 pm »
Thanks Ron, will look at all those options. Will do some more experiments with the tubes, as well, but focus is so critical and hard to get.

Thanks,
Virgil

Offline Virgil H

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1404
Re: Looking for Opinions on Photo Tests
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2023, 11:22:46 pm »
I have been experimenting more with the extension tubes and lights and have an image I think is much better. This is with the longest tube by itself and I moved the lights to a different position so I could get the camera closer to the coin without screwing up the lighting. I was able to (I think) get a better focus as more of the frame was filled. And, I used the timer to reduce shake. This one is closest to what the actual coin color is. So, of my tests, this is the best one in my opinion. I think bronze will possibly be different. What do you think?

Note, I had to reduce size of the image so it could be uploaded. That is a good sign as there is more image to work with whereas before I had to do no resizing after cropping.

I did look at some of the things Ron mentioned. The Olympus cameras look nice for sure.

Thanks,
Virgil

Offline Ron C2

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1055
  • Qvod perierat adhvc exstat nvmmorvm
Re: Looking for Opinions on Photo Tests
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2023, 02:58:31 pm »
That looks better. If not already done, increase your f-stop as high as it will go, and manually set your shutter speed. Don't use auto. Will take some trial and error to land on the right shutter speed. If your camera has digital iso settings, use 100.

If you are using a flash, operate it in manual mode. Auto flash is rubbish for shooting coins.

Lastly, for using extension tubes, fine focus is best done by moving the camera closer or further from the coin. Cheap micro adjustment camera mounts for tripods can be had on Amazon.
My Ancient Coin Gallery: Click here

R. Cormier, Ottawa

Offline Virgil H

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1404
Re: Looking for Opinions on Photo Tests
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2023, 03:06:28 pm »
Thanks for the comments. I am using manual and need to do more experimenting. I am not using flash, just those lights I posted above, I have two of them. Moving the camera is a bit of a pain, but focus area is so small. I will check all the adjustments you mention.

Virgil

 

All coins are guaranteed for eternity