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Author Topic: Urbs roma  (Read 733 times)

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Offline Miroslav J

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Urbs roma
« on: May 04, 2023, 12:00:26 pm »
Has anyone seen a reverse like this, on an urbs roma coin. The right twin looks like a female to me. A very unusual hairstyle.

Offline Lech Stępniewski

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Re: Urbs roma
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2023, 01:58:22 pm »
I think it's accidental. It's hard to believe that the engraver in Thessalonica didn't know it was about two boys.
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Offline antvwala

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Re: Urbs roma
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2023, 02:40:54 pm »
Thessalonica V mint.
What may make it rare or common is the symbol above the she-wolf. What may make it rare or common is the symbol above the she-wolf. Three variants are "not in Ric"

Offline antvwala

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Re: Urbs roma
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2023, 02:43:03 pm »

Offline Lech Stępniewski

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Re: Urbs roma
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2023, 03:30:46 pm »
Three variants are "not in Ric"

If you have good photos of these three variants, I would be grateful for them.
Lech Stępniewski
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Offline antvwala

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Re: Urbs roma
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2023, 03:40:14 pm »
TE02a

Offline antvwala

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Re: Urbs roma
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2023, 03:41:01 pm »
TE02b

Offline antvwala

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Re: Urbs roma
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2023, 03:41:46 pm »
TE03

Offline antvwala

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Re: Urbs roma
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2023, 03:54:19 pm »

Offline Lech Stępniewski

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Re: Urbs roma
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2023, 04:22:45 pm »
Thank you very much but for such details one needs really good pictures (big, sharp) of really good coins (well struck and well preserved).

I am not convinced that there is anything other than a distorted epsilon on these coins. Dot instead of officina letter is so unusual that the proof must be very strong.

Also, the tiny dot in the last photo seems accidental to me. An additional specimen would be needed.
Lech Stępniewski
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Offline antvwala

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Re: Urbs roma
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2023, 02:16:08 am »
I won't be posting any more images because I downloaded them from auctions or ebay and the owner of one of these coins has called my attention to posting that image without his consent. Obviously, I cannot know who bought the coin from the auction or from ebay, and therefore I cannot ask for consent from time to time: therefore, to avoid protests from the owners of the coins, I will no longer post the images of the Vrbs Roma.

Offline Lech Stępniewski

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Re: Urbs roma
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2023, 01:01:32 pm »
I won't be posting any more images because I downloaded them from auctions or ebay and the owner of one of these coins has called my attention to posting that image without his consent. Obviously, I cannot know who bought the coin from the auction or from ebay, and therefore I cannot ask for consent from time to time: therefore, to avoid protests from the owners of the coins, I will no longer post the images of the Vrbs Roma.

The buyer of the coin has no rights to images taken by the seller. Additionally, there is something like fair use. You don't use these images commercially; you just use them for scientific reasons as a proof of existence of new variety.

Of course, decision is yours, but without pictures all these alleged new varieties will have to be treated as non-existent or at least questionable. And because of this, all the tremendous work you put into finding new varieties will become useless.
Lech Stępniewski
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Offline antvwala

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Re: Urbs roma
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2023, 01:11:42 pm »
I think the same as you, but the owner of a Vrbs Roma coin openly complained on the FAC about the fact that in a summary image of my database there was a coin of his and that he hadn't authorized me to publish it. Nor could I have asked for his authorization, since it was downloaded from a commercial site and therefore I could not know who was the owner of that coin, like almost all those in my database. I don't understand the jealousy for the images of one's coins, but I respect the thoughts of others.
I have published a book on the history of photography, illustrated with a hundred old photos ranging from 1850 to 1880. On the back of the page with the title I have specified that I authorize anyone to use the photographs I have published without needing or asking for my authorization nor to cite the source. But we don't all think the same way...

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: Urbs roma
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2023, 11:43:54 pm »
Just ignore them. If they didn't take the photo, they have no right to complain at all. You can completely ignore them if they did not take the photo.
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Offline helvetica

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Re: Urbs roma
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2023, 09:29:50 am »
I received a similar email about a different type of coin a couple of weeks ago. The coin in question has been on wildwinds since 2008 and was taken from an ebay sale. The current owner - a FAC member- who apparently has only recently bought it - sent me quite a snotty email that I was using the image of his coin without his permission....
There is however a certain German company who takes coin photos for at least one big auction house. He threatens with a court case when he spots one of "his" photos on wildwinds, despite my having permission from the auction house. However, my reasoning is, he takes photos at the request of a company and is paid for the work. It's just a job like a mechanic fixing your car and being paid for the work. So if the mechanic installs new windscreen wipers and is paid for the parts and his work, then using the German bloke's logic, the windscreen wipers still belong to the mechanic's garage...

Offline Heliodromus

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Re: Urbs roma
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2023, 09:38:59 am »
However, my reasoning is, he takes photos at the request of a company and is paid for the work.

I don't know about Germany, but in the US it's not so simple - it's about who owns the copyright (i.e rights to publish/license/sell the photo). Did the auction house just pay for the photo to be taken and for rights to use it, or did they actually buy the photo outright and are now the copyright holder ?


Offline Altamura

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Re: Urbs roma
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2023, 10:40:49 am »
... I don't know about Germany, but in the US it's not so simple - it's about who owns the copyright ...
As far as I know it is here (and this is then the whole European Union) more or less the same. Owning the coin and owning the copyright of a picture of it are two different things. As long as there are no contracts telling something different, the copyright of the photo is held by the one who has taken it.

But there is also the "threshold of originality" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threshold_of_originality, in German we have the beautiful word "Schöpfungshöhe"  :)) which has to be overcome to get a copyright on something. I do not know if there is already some juridical decision in connection with commercial coin photos  :-\.

Regards

Altamura

Offline Heliodromus

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Re: Urbs roma
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2023, 11:10:48 am »
In the US there's a related concept applicable to photos that there essentially has to be a creative element. It's understood that things like portrait and landscape photos meet this standard, but at the other end of the spectrum there's legal precedent of the "Bridgeman vs Corel" case where it was ruled that photos of paintings were not copyright protected since the goal was to make an exact copy of the painting, although in that case the subject matter was in public domain as well as being 2-D.

It would seem logical (but of course logic does not apply - it's the law that matters!) that 3-D objects like coins where there is no one best way to photograph it do require a creative element, but as far as I'm aware this has never been tested in court. It would certainly be odd if copyright was not applicable just because the subject matter was a coin, as is obvious when one looks at the work of a highly skilled photographer.

https://hipshotphotography.com/

Offline antvwala

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Re: Urbs roma
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2023, 11:37:34 am »
Jealousy for the image of a coin, whether on the part of the owner or an auction house, seems absurd to me, especially if whoever publishes the image does it only to help numismatic knowledge without making any profit. But it's not for me to decide whether or not it's legitimate. When in doubt, I will not publish the photographs of dozens of Not in Ric that I have in my archive.

Offline Lech Stępniewski

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Re: Urbs roma
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2023, 12:21:32 pm »
When in doubt, I will not publish the photographs of dozens of Not in Ric that I have in my archive.

Sad to hear that. Maybe you should once more consider Joe's advice: "Just ignore them". Joe is in this business for years and he doesn't give advice rashly.

And of course you don't need to publish these photographs by yourself. Send them to me and I will publish them with pleasure and for the sake of numismatic community.
Lech Stępniewski
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Offline Victor C

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Re: Urbs roma
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2023, 01:17:37 pm »

it's called "fair use"

"the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright"

https://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#107
Victor Clark

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Offline Lech Stępniewski

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Re: Urbs roma
« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2023, 01:34:58 pm »
Quote from: Victor C on August 20, 2023, 01:17:37 pm
it's called "fair use"

Oh, yes. We have a similar law in Poland called "Prawo cytatu" (Right to quote) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_quote

It is legal to quote a photograph if it is, for example, an integral part of proof that particular coin really exists.
Lech Stępniewski
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Offline antvwala

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Re: Urbs roma
« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2023, 02:31:14 pm »
This is how it should be, but a member of this forum complained that in a table with various photographs there was one that was his property and he reproached me harshly that he had never authorized me to publish this image.

Offline Lech Stępniewski

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Re: Urbs roma
« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2023, 02:35:53 pm »
And you can legally ignore him.
Lech Stępniewski
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Offline antvwala

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Re: Urbs roma
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2023, 02:55:20 pm »
Since this forista who got so angry because inside a table with about twenty coins one was his is probably reading us, let him have the courage to intervene and have his say, rather than remain hidden.

 

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