Ancient City "Kodroula" - looking for more Informations

[Prieure de Sion]

Hello...

I get a Commodus coin from Codrula / Kodroula in Pisidia: https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=181836

With provincial coins, I am interested in the city that minted the coin, among other things.
But I search and search and search - but the information is mostly only a two-line.

Like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kodroula


Does anyone have a tip for me with a little more information about the ancient city?

Thanks!

 

[Serendipity]

I asked a newly developed artificial-intelligence (AI) chatbot for help which categorised the question as "Ancient Pisidia Cities." Perhaps I should rephrase the question with reference to Commodus.

SERENDIPITY: Do you have any information about the ancient city of Codrula/Kodroula in Pisidia?

AI: I'm sorry, but I couldn't find any specific information about an ancient city called Codrula/Kodroula in Pisidia.

However, Pisidia was a region in the southern part of present-day Turkey that was inhabited by the Pisidians, an indigenous people with a rich history dating back to the Bronze Age. During the Hellenistic period, Pisidia came under the control of the Seleucid Empire, and later the Roman Empire.

Several ancient cities were located in Pisidia, including Sagalassos, Antioch in Pisidia, and Termessos, among others. These cities were known for their impressive architecture, including temples, theaters, and public buildings.

If you have any additional information or context about Codrula/Kodroula in Pisidia, please let me know, and I'll do my best to help you further.

[Jochen]

 

Jochen

[Serendipity]

The artificial-intelligence chatbot hasn’t proved helpful at all! Useless contraption! I’ve done my own manual search for information about the ancient city of Codrula/Kodroula (Kodrula?) in Pisidia. It lies 10km west of the Yazipinar in Turkey. The baths, an aquaduct and a temple have been excavated and in 1996 the city walls were mapped and a record made of the Doric temple, the baths and smaller monuments.

[Prieure de Sion]

The artificial-intelligence chatbot hasn’t proved helpful at all! Useless contraption! I’ve done my own manual search for information about the ancient city of Codrula/Kodroula (Kodrula?) in Pisidia. It lies 10km west of the Yazipinar in Turkey. The baths, an aquaduct and a temple have been excavated and in 1996 the city walls were mapped and a record made of the Doric temple, the baths and smaller monuments.

The idea of asking an AI has not occurred to me yet either. At least you found something more than I did.
Thanks for that.

You couldn't find anything about the foundation and history in your source?

[Heliodromus]

I asked GPT-4, and this is all it gave me:

Codrula (or Kodroula) was an ancient city in Pisidia, a region of Asia Minor (modern Turkey). It was located near the border with Lycia and was part of the Roman province of Galatia. It is known mainly from its coinage, which spanned from the 2nd to the 3rd century AD. The coins depict various Roman emperors and empresses, as well as local deities such as Dionysos, Tyche and Zeus. The city’s name may be derived from the Greek word κόδρος (kodros), meaning “stump” or “trunk” of a tree.

Edit: Of course it may have made any/all of this up, since that's how this tech currently works! 

[Serendipity]

The brief information about Kodrula I found on the WildWinds website which is very reliable and accurate. There is also some Kodrula coinage. An academic article about the cult in Pisidia does indeed mention that to the east of the city centre of Kodrula is a Doric distylos in antis temple: https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/pisidia/codrula/i.html.

[Prieure de Sion]

Edit: Of course it may have made any/all of this up, since that's how this tech currently works! 

And I was just about to write thanks for the information. But you're right - is this really historical information gathered by the AI - or does the AI think this information fits together and seems logical as an answer?!??

Now the AI has also already reached the coins

[Prieure de Sion]

The brief information about Kodrula I found on the WildWinds website which is very reliable and accurate. There is also some Kodrula coinage. An academic article about the cult in Pisidia does indeed mention that to the east of the city centre of Kodrula is a Doric distylos in antis temple: https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/pisidia/codrula/i.html.

Thank you. I'm afraid I won't find much more detail. In the meantime I have found a few Turkish publications - but I have to translate them first - searching in them is not easy.

At least I have found some "nice" pictures:
https://www.histolia.de/pisidien/kodrula/kodrula-pisidien-bilder.html

[Prieure de Sion]

I find a little more at the Turkish websites.

Kodrula was in the District of Bucak (Burdur): https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucak_(Burdur)

And here is also a little modern information about the ancient city: http://www.metkains.com/sayfalar/2/Cografi-Konum-Cografi-Konum.html

KODRULA : Bucak ilçesine bağlı Kestel Köyü’nün yakınlarında yer alır. Bugünkü Kestel Köyü’nün adı da antik Kodrula’dan gelmektedir. Helenistik dönemden Bizans dönemine kadar kesintisiz yerleşim yeri olmayı sürdüren antik kentin yapıları, zirveden yamaçlara kadar inmektedir. Etekte işlevi anlaşılamayan büyük bir yapı bulunmakta, bunun doğusunda Dor düzeninde yapılmış bir tapınak yer almaktadır. Nekrtopol, şehrin cephesindeki kesme taşlardan yapılmış sur kalıntılarının dışındadır.

[Serendipity]

The Kodrula archeological fragments however fragmentary are absolutely amazing. There must have been a very interesting cult going on in Kodrula at that time.

[Prieure de Sion]

There must have been a very interesting cult going on in Kodrula at that time.

And that it was... if found a free pdf "cult in pisidia" - and there are so many hits with "Kodrula":
https://www.academia.edu/11543998/Cult_in_Pisidia_Religious_Practice_in_Southwestern_Asia_Minor_from_Alexander_the_Great_to_the_Rise_of_Christianity_Studies_in_Eastern_Mediterranean_Archaeology_10_

But I will show detailed tomorrow what I find in the document.

[Prieure de Sion]

So, I have summarized the information about Kodrula with the help of Wikipedia, Wikidata, Turkish websites and the mentioned PDF publication. Maybe someone else is also looking for summarized information about the ancient place and can use this.

If someone finds mistakes or asks for corrections - or has further information, please feel free to contact me here.

Codrula (also Kodrula or Kodroula) was a town of ancient Pisidia inhabited during Hellenistic, Roman and Byzantine times. Unfortunately, historical data and further information about the ancient city are very sparse. Its site is located near Kaynar Kale and 10km west of Yazipinar, in Asiatic Turkey. The remains of the ancient city are in today’s Bucak County (and district town of the same name), which is in the Turkish province of Burdur. About ten kilometers northeast of the county seat, near the village of Çamlık, lie the ruins of the ancient Pisid city of Kremna. In the southeast of the district, the Aksu Çayı River, which flows into the Mediterranean Sea near Antalya, is dammed to form the Karacaören Barajı Reservoir. In the west of the district are the Seljuk caravanserais of Susuz Han and İncir Han. The name of the present village Kestel goes back to the ancient Kodrula. The colonization of the region, and perhaps of the city, was probably carried out by Macedonian and Seleucid veterans, respectively military colonists as suggested by numerous monuments, inscriptions and dedications found. The buildings of the ancient city, which was an uninterrupted settlement from the Hellenistic to the Byzantine period, descend from the summit to the slopes. At the foot is a large building, but its function is not clear, and to the east of it is a Doric temple. The necropolis is located, outside the remains of the city walls, made of hewn stones at the front of the city. Likewise, the baths, an aqueduct and smaller monuments were excavated, recorded and the city walls mapped.
 
Many cults were actively practiced in Kodrula, as Peter Talloen (2015) describes in his publication „Cult in Pisidia. Religious Practice in Southwestern Asia Minor from Alexander the Great to the Rise of Christianity“. Of particular note here is the cult of „Zeus Kotanes.“ The epithet of the god worshipped in Kodrula may have been derived from the name of one of the ethnic groups inhabited in the region, the Katenneis (Weiss 1991: 69-71; Hellen-Kemper and Hild 2004: 615), although the latter were placed in the southeast, while the city itself was located on the northern border of the Milyas. On a rocky outcrop east of the center of Kodrula is the Doric Temple (distylos in antis), already mentioned in the first paragraph, built against a rock wall to form the back wall of the building. Below the sanctuary is a subterranean room that can be reached by a staircase in the northern part of the cella. Here there is a rocky niche with two dedicatory inscriptions to Plouto and Kore from the 2nd century AD (Bohne 1960: 48 nos. 96-97). The underground room – an obvious border crossing to the underworld – would then have been used for the cult of Plouto (Hades), while the cella most likely belonged to his consort Kore (Persephone), who, according to ancient mythology, dwelt above ground in spring and summer. The cult of Plouto and Kore in Kodrula was probably known and popular beyond the region, as the sanctuary probably later served as a model for other cult sites in neighboring cities.
 
The cult of Dionysus also enjoyed increasing popularity from the time of Marcus Aurelius. The city of Kodrula underlined this with statues of the god (a well-known specimen can be seen today in the Museum of Burdur, inventory number E6118); as well as with an extensive minting of bronze coins depicting the god of wine with thyrsus and kantharos. A few coins are found here under Aulock Pisidia I: 972 (Antoninus Pius), 975-978 (Caesar Marcus Aurelius), 986-988 (Commodus), 1001 (Julia Domna), 1006 (Caracalla), 1009-1012 (Elagabal), 1017 (Julia Mamaea), 1019 (Gordianus III) and 1031 (Valerian). On the city boundary with Kolbasa, near a spring, is a stone-carved relief of the goddess Luna, the Dioscuri, and an unidentified horseman with a club (Smith 2011: 144 R9 and 146 D3).

 

[Virgil H]

Regarding AI, I think for the types of questions we would be asking it would return better information with a series of targeted web searches using more than one and preferably multiple search engines (there are significant differences between Google and DuckDuckGo search results, for example), as well as direct specific site searches (such as searching various sites like Wikipedia (which is also full of inaccuracies), academia, history sites originating in multiple countries, etc. Anything produced by AI has to be programmed anyway and the information is out there or it would never even show up. Beyond that, there is no way to actually know if what the AI reports is accurate. I have been following the latest developments in this area with some concerns related to both accuracy and promoted narratives. Doing targeted searches would take longer, but also allow us to have a basis for making a judgment on how accurate the information is rather than taking the AIs word for it.

This reminds me of the 1980s when AI was also "going to put everyone out of work and take over the world." I worked for the US Army Signal School that had an office devoted to AI with a couple of PhDs that I had a management role in. Some of you may remember the M1 Shell. Back then, these were rule based programs that could, as one example, diagnose encephalitis better than most doctors and as good as the experts. The rules were, of course, derived from the experts and this technology is widely used today and it useful. But, it didn't take over the world. It perhaps has put a few folks out of jobs, but not doctors. LOL. I think the biggest danger with some current directions with ChatGPT is more along the lines of driving particular narratives that may or may not have real basis in fact. But, that is already happening without ChatGpt across a wide spectrum. And the jokes I have asked it to write aren't putting a single stand-up comedian out of business LOL. I have been fortunate to be able to get access to a version of this latest software (based on ChatGPT) and have not been at all impressed.Or rather I guess I should say it is way overhyped, much like the AI from my younger days when the Army was worried about it and looking at both the offensive and defensive aspects of its use. They quietly dropped that office after a few years, although there is no doubt that the Signal Corps and Cyber Command is knee deep in it again today.

Virgil