FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board

Numismatic and History Discussion Forums => Roman Provincial Coins Discussion Forum => Topic started by: iwaniw on July 29, 2013, 11:32:21 am

Title: Maximus Caesar Alexandrian -- Irregular obv. Inscription; Die matching?
Post by: iwaniw on July 29, 2013, 11:32:21 am
Included below are a number of coins which appear to have the same obverse inscription error, which is not clear. This problem appears to be isolated to the coins in the Dattari collection-- I have not seen this error elsewhere. All the coins are dated year 3. I believe they all have the same obverse die, but the inscription detail looks a little different on each coin.

The coins are:

Dattari 4615      Dattari 4647
Dattari 4622      Dattari/Savio 12382
M&M_D-12-638 (identified as in Dattari's collection; Looks like DS 12382]

Dattari describes the inscription on 4615 and 4657 as ending:  -KA  Y (below). Dattari 4622 appears to have the same inscription as 4615 and 4657 but is not noted in the catalog.

In the M&M coin, which is very clear, it looks like -KG  V

I am considering the inscription:   -KI  V   and considering that the die carver missed the A before the I and added it below upside down == which looked like a V?

Your thoughts?

Title: Re: Maximus Caesar Alexandrian -- Irregular obv. Inscription; Die matching?
Post by: AlfaOmega on July 29, 2013, 11:53:53 am
dattari 4615 KA-Y
dattari 4622 KA-I
dattari 4647 is Gordian I
photos of Dattari-Savio, who are photos of the collection Dattari, are not conclusive, there are many errors and coins in Dattari-Savio and not put in the catalog of legends.
Roberto
Title: Re: Maximus Caesar Alexandrian -- Irregular obv. Inscription; Die matching?
Post by: iwaniw on July 31, 2013, 11:36:53 pm
Roberto:

Thanks for responding.

I am interested in identifying the obverse inscription ending from the images I posted. The question I am posing, is whether all the coins have the same obverse die. If they are all of the same obverse die then the inscription will be identical. (I think you looked up the wrong Dattari number as Dattari 4647 is Maximus and not Gordian I).

Iwaniw
Title: Re: Maximus Caesar Alexandrian -- Irregular obv. Inscription; Die matching?
Post by: curtislclay on August 01, 2013, 01:31:52 am
It looks to me like the same obv. die.

Figuring out the end of the legend might require having a nice specimen in hand!
Title: Re: Maximus Caesar Alexandrian -- Irregular obv. Inscription; Die matching?
Post by: iwaniw on August 01, 2013, 06:27:30 pm
Curtis:

I think the best image is the M&M coin. The image can be saved and opened into a photo editing program and can be zoomed in. The letter after the K looks like an I with a short dash at the top (to the right). It makes the letter look like a small G.  I's usually have top and bottom lines, so it is hard to say if the top line was not engraved correctly, along with the bottom.

In any case, this error inscription will likely always be described with a "?".

Iwaniw


Title: Re: Maximus Caesar Alexandrian -- Irregular obv. Inscription; Die matching?
Post by: iwaniw on August 17, 2013, 07:49:01 pm
Here's another coin with the "v" below the inscription. It looks like a different obverse die. It is also hard to read the inscription ending on this coin. This is nicest coin with this reverse type.

Iwaniw
Title: Re: Maximus Caesar Alexandrian -- Irregular obv. Inscription; Die matching?
Post by: Curtis JJ on May 19, 2023, 05:05:40 pm
This is a very old thread, but I'm seeing it for the first time now, and I recognize this obverse die immediately. I wish my specimen could contribute more, but that part is illegible, besides that curious extra "V" feature in the right field. I don't know if there's been any interesting progress on this die's inscription, but if these are included in the new Emmett vol., I'll be interested to see what it has to say.

Mine is attached (the photo from Naville Numis., also on RPC Online). It's also from the Dattari collection (Naville's consignment), but it was NOT illustrated in Dattari-Savio 2007. RPC has my coin incorrectly (I need to message them) as Dattari 4651 (the rev. is also illustrated in the 1901 Plates, same coin in DS 1999/2007, not my specimen) https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/coins/6/10714 (https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/coins/6/10714) (As Curtis Clay's cataloging of the Art Institute of Chicago/Grover Collection Alexandrian for Gemini XIII showed, many of Dattari's coins weren't illustrated in DS 2007; that seems to be especially true for the 3rd cent. coins.)
Title: Re: Maximus Caesar Alexandrian -- Irregular obv. Inscription; Die matching?
Post by: iwaniw on May 20, 2023, 03:17:13 pm
PM me with your email and I will send the Maximus file. Being a die carving error, it has no unique variety letter, but all the coins with this error are noted in the catalogue.

Iwaniw
Title: Re: Maximus Caesar Alexandrian -- Irregular obv. Inscription; Die matching?
Post by: iwaniw on May 22, 2023, 04:55:02 pm
Curtis,

The error variety has been added for your zeus ammon coin. I can add the picture as there is room.

Iwaniw