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Author Topic: Best of Type Gallery  (Read 38804 times)

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Offline Dino

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Re: Best of Type Gallery
« Reply #25 on: May 23, 2011, 09:01:10 am »
Great idea to try to make the best of type gallery more active.  I have a few issues with it though.

1.  I am looking at some of the coins Lloyd just posted.  Let's take his Alexander drachm for example.  Looking at that coin, I'd rate it a 5 and I have done so.

The coin is here:

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-67481



There is another drachm belonging to Philoromaos, that I have already rated as a 5 as well.  In my opinion, it deserves that rating.  It is here:

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-55516



Again, in my opinion, Philoromaos' coin has nicer surfaces thatn Lloyd's but the reverse of Lloyd's is simply a work of art.  If I had to choose between the two, I'd choose Lloyd's.  I'm sure there are others who would choose Philoromaos's coin.  I don't want to downgrade my rating to a 4 just to rate Lloyd's higher, because both coins deserve a 5.  (It also leads one to the temptation of giving a beautiful coin a zero just because you like another better).  

There is no way to make a distinction between two 5s under the current system.  So wouldn't a poll between the two be better and then anyone who wants to challenge the winner has to do so by setting up a poll in a best of type challenge thread?

That has the added advantage of letting us know when a challenge has occurred, so we can vote.

2.  Is there a way to search all coins of a type in the best of type thread?  For example, how do I find all Athens tets posted in that gallery.  When I run a search for Athens tets, it shows me all Athens tets in all galleries.

The question:  Is it possible to organizethe best of type gallery into subgalleries so that it's easier to take a look at the best of type in a particular category and decide whether you have a challenger in your trays?

For example:

Best of Type Roman
Best of Type Roman Provincial
Best of Type Greek
Best of Type Byzantine
etc.

Great if there could be subcategories.  Not real detailed, but in Greek for example:

Asia Minor
Mainland/Islands
Magna Graecia

You could get more detailed, but I don't think you'd need to.

That way, you know where to look and it's a bit easier to populate the galleries.

I know it's probably a lot of work to split everything up that way, but I'd volunteer to help.  I'd be happy to maintain the Best of Type Greek Galleries, for example.

4to2CentBCphilia

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Re: Best of Type Gallery
« Reply #26 on: May 23, 2011, 10:50:22 am »
I would like to generate a bit more interest and activity in the best of type gallery.  The coin of the day thread is popular and my original idea for the best of type gallery was to create that sort of sharing and fun.  I would like to spice it up a bit.  Some ideas:

Add a best of type discussion board instead of the single generic Members' Gallery board. 

A monthly review which deletes any coin with a rating below 4.1 with more than 10 votes and any coin which is the same type as another with a lower score. 

Encouraging people to post challenges (my coin is better) and advertise them on the discussion board.

Anyone like the ideas?  Other ideas?



Joe

You may want to call this thread "Pandoras Box"........because you have surely opened it.  :)

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: Best of Type Gallery
« Reply #27 on: May 23, 2011, 11:11:49 am »
Your two 5's may be the same, but others will rate one a four.  It is the cumulative rating that counts and I don't think there is a problem with the current 1 through 5 scale

I renamed all the titles of coins in the BOT gallery yesterday, the default order is by title.  You can change your viewing sort order but if you leave the default, two coins of the same type (with identical or similar titles) should be next to eachother or very close in the sort order.  You shouldn't have to use search to browse the BOT at all (but you can).  For example, if members start titles for Roman Coins with ROMAN, they will fall into the right order.  I will periodically re-title entries to keep a logical sort order. 

If you want to see all the Athens tets, scroll until you find the coins starting with "GREEK, Athens..." (some may be "GREEK, Attica, Athens...").

I will consider volunteer Admins for BOT.  The responsibilities would be:

Periodically editing titles to keep a logical sort order for all the files.
Deleting coins with a rating below 4.1 and over 10 votes.
Posting a challenge notification on the boards (use a new thread) when you notice two coins of the same type, setting an end date for voting (maybe two weeks?). 
Setting an end date for the challenge when a member posts their own challenge notification on the boards (again, maybe two weeks?) 
Deleting the lower rated coin when enough votes make the results of a challenge clear (posted end date passed and at least 10 votes for each).

Really a simple system.  It is meant only to be good fun and to accumulate a beautiful gallery of coins for everyone to enjoy. 

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Offline benito

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Re: Best of Type Gallery
« Reply #28 on: May 23, 2011, 11:26:15 am »
May I propose that the title for RR ,as it is now, be followed by the Gens.
i.e. ROMAN REPUBLIC, POSTUMIA . The name of the moneyer could follow,or be included in the general description.

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: Best of Type Gallery
« Reply #29 on: May 23, 2011, 11:28:48 am »
May I propose that the title for RR ,as it is now, be followed by the Gens.
i.e. ROMAN REPUBLIC, POSTUMIA . The name of the moneyer could follow,or be included in the general description.

I agree, that is the best naming scheme for Roman Republic
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bruno v

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Re: Best of Type Gallery
« Reply #30 on: May 26, 2011, 07:10:42 am »
Are Celtic Gaul coins allowed in BOT?
Thank you,
bv

Offline Dino

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Re: Best of Type Gallery
« Reply #31 on: May 26, 2011, 08:13:13 am »
Don't see why not.  They're certainly a type of coin.

Offline Potator II

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Re: Best of Type Gallery
« Reply #32 on: May 26, 2011, 08:20:30 am »
Are Celtic Gaul coins allowed in BOT?
Thank you,
bv

Why not ?
There are medieval coins in BOT gallery which are not as ancient as Celtic are, and deserving being there.

Potator

bruno v

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Re: Best of Type Gallery
« Reply #33 on: May 26, 2011, 12:28:35 pm »
This board is called "Classical Numismatics Discussion Board", isn't it, and celtics are considered a non-classical culture, hence the question.
Thank you for the kind answer.
b

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: Best of Type Gallery
« Reply #34 on: May 26, 2011, 04:23:46 pm »
This board is called "Classical Numismatics Discussion Board", isn't it, and celtics are considered a non-classical culture, hence the question.
Thank you for the kind answer.
b

Both the shop and the discussion board have expanded into other areas since inception.  Despite the name, we have always been somewhat flexible.  Anything ancient, medieval or even just numismatic is OK.  Just don't put up any pics of your girlfriend in BOT.  :)
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4to2CentBCphilia

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Re: Best of Type Gallery
« Reply #35 on: May 26, 2011, 04:29:06 pm »
Quote
Just don't put up any pics of your girlfriend in BOT.  :)

You sure about that? Because THAT would stimulate alot of interest in BOT..  :evil:

Mark

Offline Randygeki(h2)

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Re: Best of Type Gallery
« Reply #36 on: May 28, 2011, 07:38:07 pm »
I've been hesitant to add anything to BoT, suppose I'll give it a try now :)

Lloyd Taylor

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Re: Best of Type Gallery
« Reply #37 on: May 28, 2011, 07:57:54 pm »
A couple of questions that causes me to ask about the validity and basis of of BoT voting:

If people are not familiar with the range of specific grades of a coin type posted in the BoT gallery  how do they judge the merits of the posted coin?

Do they simply vote on coin aesthetics, which has no bearing on whether the example is actually a best of the type?

Best of type determination requires familiarity with all the possible range of specimens of a specific type.

For example, I posted a pig ugly coin, which at first blush would get a 1/5 for aesthetic appeal. Yet as I said in the posting after many years of studying the type it is the best example I have come across and anyone familiar with the standard reference on the type Retowski Die Munzen Der Komnenen Von Trapezunt would I dare say agree.

Like many others coins in the BoT gallery it received a 1/5 without any comment as to why.  

On aesthetic grounds I can appreciate why it scored this vote.  But aesthetics are irrelevant to the issue of whether this is the best example of a Trebizond Basil emission, specifically Retwoski 9.

Did the person who voted on this know anything of the coinage of Trebizond and the form of surviving examples?  I very much doubt it. Had he read Retwoski, which at a minimum would be the basic requirement for making a judgement?  I doubt it.

If people are going to post crappy low votes, then it would be appreciated, in fact it should be a requirement that they explain why.  

Otherwise the voting process is completely flawed.


My suggestion: Low votes need to be qualified with explanation otherwise they should be deleted from the count.  

Otherwise, it appears that the numismatic equivalent of penis envy runs large amongst some Forvmites and it will defeat the purpose of Joe in having a BOT gallery.

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: Best of Type Gallery
« Reply #38 on: May 28, 2011, 09:09:08 pm »
...Otherwise the voting process is completely flawed...

...My suggestion: Low votes need to be qualified with explanation otherwise they should be deleted from the count... 

It is flawed but it isn't completely flawed.  We may lose a few coin to deletion that actually are BOT.  The primary intent, however, is to have fun and build a gallery of very attractive coins.  The process is good enough for that. 

Your suggestion sounds good but is impossible to implement.  Voting is anonymous and the no way to tie it to comments. 

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Lloyd Taylor

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Re: Best of Type Gallery
« Reply #39 on: May 28, 2011, 09:21:35 pm »
Your suggestion sounds good but is impossible to implement.  Voting is anonymous and the no way to tie it to comments.  

I suggest that anything below a 2/5 be discounted for the purposes of the calculation of average score, unless accompanied by a comment that explains why it was rated 0 or 1. After all no-one is posting slugs on the BoT Gallery and if they did I'd be happy to rate it low and explain that because it is a slug it gets a zero. Similarly, when posting what at first glance appear would appear to be average coins to those not initiated with the type, the poster should provide some qualification as to why it warrants consideration as a best of type.

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Re: Best of Type Gallery
« Reply #40 on: May 28, 2011, 09:56:37 pm »
.....  We may lose a few coin to deletion that actually are BOT.  

Surely common-sense will prevent the unwarranted deletion of BOT coins simply because of their vote count.

Would anyone delete the coin below if it only managed to to be awarded a three? I say this because, in the early BOT days, because of malevolent members, that was all it achieved. It has taken several years and 147 votes for it to reach 4.7. This coin is in my view one of the finest coins in existence and yet, simply because of malevolent voting this coin can never rate a 5 in the BOT gallery.

   https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-4349

Alex.


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Re: Best of Type Gallery
« Reply #41 on: May 28, 2011, 10:06:53 pm »
Would anyone delete the coin below if it only managed to to be awarded a three? I say this because, in the early BOT days, because of malevolent members, that was all it achieved. It has taken several years and 147 votes for it to reach 4.7. This coin is in my view one of the finest coins in existence and yet,  simply because of malevolent voting this coin can never rate a 5 in the BOT gallery.
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-4349

That is a truly sad indictment of the extremely small minority of humorless, ignorant, morons that stalk this hallowed FORVM.

Offline Jaimelai

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Re: Best of Type Gallery
« Reply #42 on: May 28, 2011, 11:31:31 pm »
I just posted a couple of my favorites in an attempt to boost the Greek side of things.  Not quite the same level as Lloyds beauties, but one is one of the only two known of that type (to the best of my knowledge), so we'll how the voting goes and if Lloyd's theory holds.

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: Best of Type Gallery
« Reply #43 on: May 29, 2011, 07:45:29 am »
If it is only one of two known, I would suggest including that in the title (at the end) for our voters that don't like to read the details.  
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Offline areich

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Re: Best of Type Gallery
« Reply #44 on: May 29, 2011, 09:04:03 am »
I wouldn't call it humourless, this is what you find funny when you're 12-14.
The more people are annoyed by it, the more it will happen.
Andreas Reich

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Re: Best of Type Gallery
« Reply #45 on: May 29, 2011, 09:10:06 am »
I don't think that every coin in the BOT, just because it is in the BOT and is therefore going to be a very fine example of a type should get the 4-5 rating. 

If you post a coin worthy of the BOT in your gallery, well then sure it should be a 4-5 without question.  However, when you post a coin in the BOT, the catagory name itself should imply a much harsher and stricter grading by members.  A coin that gets a 5 in your gallery may only get a 3 in the BOT.

And yes, with reason a coin in the BOT can and should in some instances get a 1-3 rating.  It is the elite of the elite and therefore has to be critiqued strongly and in a fashion that can sort those that are even better than itself.

I hope this rambling post makes sense.  I will say that I have given one or two coins a 2 or 3 because I was comparing them to the others of the type posted in the BOT.  When I put 4 coins or so alonside one another, my favorite got a 5, and my grading went down from there appropriately.

Just my opinion for what it is worth.

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: Best of Type Gallery
« Reply #46 on: May 29, 2011, 09:21:01 am »
Everyone has their own opinions on voting, and that is OK.  I don't rate any stricter because a coin is in BOT.  I am unlikely to give anyone a 1 or 2, just because I think it isn't a very nice thing to do.  In fact, the only time I will is if I think a better coin might lose a challenge.    
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Offline Andrew McCabe

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Worst of Type
« Reply #47 on: May 29, 2011, 09:27:00 am »
At the extreme, I'm not sure how the below coin would fare:

I guess this example, my (ex) EID MAR, would qualify as a "Worst of Type".



This is an intriguing niche: where there are countable specimens of a given rare type one could nominate a "worst of type" and one could even aim to assemble a collection containing nothing but "worst of types"!

Offline renegade3220

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Re: Best of Type Gallery
« Reply #48 on: May 29, 2011, 09:27:55 am »
Everyone has their own opinions on voting, and that is OK.  I don't rate any stricter because a coin is in BOT.  I am unlikely to give anyone a 1 or 2, just because I think it isn't a very nice thing to do.  In fact, the only time I will is if I think a better coin might lose a challenge.    

Good point as well.  I am still figuring out how I want to vote and grade in the BOT, I did a few that way and have also thought along the lines you have just mentioned.

I find it hard that if every coin gets a 4 or 5 that one should be removed when it may be a 4.9 and the other a 5.0.  

It also somewhat defeats the purpose of the 1-3 ratings, and could easily warrant the removal of them as already pointed out as an idea.

I think the varied voting styles of voting though should act as checks and balances to one another in the long run making for an accurate reflection of the forvm community opinions of a coin.

Offline renegade3220

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Re: Best of Type Gallery
« Reply #49 on: May 29, 2011, 10:20:51 am »
I had this as a new topic but deleted it and put it here as more appropriate:

I have been going through the BOT giving my ratings and have noticed a few coins that should have challenges on them.  A couple new style tetradrachms, and such.

Without putting the weight of this on the moderator, Dino, how should the challenges be issued?  I know there has been discussion, but with things seeming to be kicking off is there a decision? 

It would be nice to see a single active member try to keep up with it if possible, much like Chris does the Never Ending Cleaning Competition, with posts of challenges and end dates to get your votes and comments in, and then of course deletions.

As a side note, when a coin loses, I think the owner should have the opportunity to just transfer their coin to their personal gallery instead of losing all the informatio and comments.  The moderator or person in charge of the competitions could leave a comment stating that it was a BOT contestant, etc. until such and such date against such and such coin with a link.  The winner could get a comment stating that they won a challenge on such and such date against such and such coin(s) with a link as well.  Then a coin that sticks around would show all the round winnings.

Also, it would be nice to see the challenges with the exclamation point message icon so one can easily see what challenges are open at the time.

Any others like this idea?

 

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