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Author Topic: John VIII Palaeologus. Head to Head [Contest over, winner declared]  (Read 5402 times)

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Offline Quant.Geek

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John VIII Palaeologus, 1423-1448, Constantinople, AR Stavraton.

Even though I love dougsmit's coin, I figured my coin has some chance of beating it.  These coins are generally crude and hence, when voting, please take that into consideration.  At this point, it is all about the legends on the coin  :)...

SpongeBob: https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-112384 (TOP COIN)

dougsmit:  https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-68613 (BOTTOM COIN)

[EDIT]
Contest ended on 28th September

*Alex




Offline dougsmit

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Re: John VIII Palaeologus. Head to Head [Contest over, winner declared]
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2014, 06:26:05 am »
This is a perfect example of why there is no way you can compare coins in a meaningful and absolute way.  We each will see different points.  In terms of legends, are all letters equal or do we give more weight to certain ones?  When it comes to portraits, do we favor the ruler or the Christ.  Wear or strike? Just what characteristics make a surface good?  Today we can submit coins to a slabber to get their opinion.  Do you consider their opinion better than your own?  Both of these coins are nicer than most of their type.  Neither is FDC (archaic term here).  I wonder how many coins of the type left the mint better than either of these:  one in a hundred, one in a thousand?

Who owns this one?  
http://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=567056

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: John VIII Palaeologus. Head to Head [Contest over, winner declared]
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2014, 10:35:09 am »
This is a perfect example of why there is no way you can compare coins in a meaningful and absolute way.

True, but that doesn't mean we can't have fun trying. :)
Joseph Sermarini
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Offline Quant.Geek

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Re: John VIII Palaeologus. Head to Head [Contest over, winner declared]
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2014, 11:59:14 am »
I am totally in agreement with dougsmit's comments.  It is all in the eyes of the beholder.  What makes it harder is that these are all hammered coins with different dies.  Each engraver added a bit to the dies which makes the coins a bit unique.  Either way, lets have fun and vote with your passion.  Both coins are fabulously and I still like dougsmit's portrait of Christ.  The engraver did an awesome job whereas in my coin, it is a bit crude.  What a portrait!!!! :D

Offline dougsmit

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Re: John VIII Palaeologus. Head to Head [Contest over, winner declared]
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2014, 02:47:41 pm »
Similarly, I prefer SB's John portrait and overall obverse legend but mine has the best possible IWA to start the outer rim and name the ruler.  I sincerely doubt there is or ever was a fully clear obverse legend on a single coin.  I bought mine because of the clear I which is important to prove the coin is not a KW of Constantine XI.  The latter's finest known coins are lucky to have a trace of the K but still get  described as EF  and 'full legend' by otherwise reasonable dealers.  I will continue to maintain that there is no shame in owning a VG 'best known' and tend to look down on the sellers who figure that their coins are all EF.  Collectors unwilling to own a coin that is not EF+ probably should buy Severus Alexander denarii rather than late, late, late Byzantine silver.

I would love to see more of these Best of Type posts involving coins that simply do not exist in EF (or VF for that matter).  Stamp collectors have to cope with the fact that the 'Rarest postage stamp' is thinned (damaged) which is a small problem when the thing is as rare as Silbannicus.  Perhaps it would be good for coin collectors to realize this happens in their hobby as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Guiana_1c_magenta

Offline wileyc

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Re: John VIII Palaeologus. Head to Head [Contest over, winner declared]
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2014, 11:45:41 pm »
I like the toning on SpongeBobs coin but am not sure if that is the lighting.

Offline Quant.Geek

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Re: John VIII Palaeologus. Head to Head [Contest over, winner declared]
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2014, 07:04:20 am »
Here is the coin without the fancy certifications. The coin is toned and this picture, in brighter light shows some of the actual details that are not shown in the prior picture due to the dark exposure  :)

Offline *Alex

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Re: John VIII Palaeologus. Head to Head [Contest over, winner declared]
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2014, 09:41:21 am »

This contest is now over and dougsmit's coin is the winner. Congratulations.

Commiserations Spongebob, I have moved your coin to your "Byzantine" collection. Thank you for initiating this contest.

Thanks too, to everyone who took part.

*Alex.


Offline Quant.Geek

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Re: John VIII Palaeologus. Head to Head [Contest over, winner declared]
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2014, 09:59:00 am »
Congrats dougsmit!  It truly was a difficult coin to beat and I still love Christ's portrait!!!  Well deserved  :D

 

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