Classical Numismatics Discussion
  Welcome Guest. Please login or register. 10% Off Store-Wide Sale Until 2 April!!! Explore Our Website And Find Joy In The History, Numismatics, Art, Mythology, And Geography Of Coins!!! Expert Authentication - Accurate Descriptions - Reasonable Prices - Coins From Under $10 To Museum Quality Rarities Welcome Guest. Please login or register. 10% Off Store-Wide Sale Until 2 April!!! Explore Our Website And Find Joy In The History, Numismatics, Art, Mythology, And Geography Of Coins!!! Support Our Efforts To Serve The Classical Numismatics Community - Shop At Forum Ancient Coins

New & Reduced


Author Topic: Phoenicia Arados - Bronze  (Read 59463 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Molinari

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 4549
  • My defeat, if understood, should be my glory
Re: Phoenicia Arados - Bronze
« Reply #25 on: March 17, 2014, 09:45:52 am »
Thanks, I realized later that I had posted a coin from Marathos in the Arados thread.  To make up for my mistake, I post this piece, which I believe is the finest known and I'm submitting it to the BOT gallery.  I think combined with its beautiful patina and slight orange highlights it can't be beat!  However, it is such a common piece I may have many challengers.

AE 15, 3.51g, Phoenicia, Arados, 164/3 B.C. Obv: Zeus facing right. Rev: Triple-pointed ram of galley, inscription above, Aradian era date 96 (164/3 BC) below. Light green patina, XF. S 6001, B.M.C. 26.17, 111-12, Hoover HGC 10, 88 (C).

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-107824

So, can i assume that you have thrown down the gauntlet, i have possibly three Aradian coins of this type that i feel can challenge yours for the honour of BOT. I will photograph these coins and choose a worthy challenger.

"May the best coin win"  :laugh:

Responding to your comment about this type being common, that of course depends solely on the coins era date.

When studying them more closely, one can see the subtle facial changes in Zeus and the slight varations of the tripple pointed ram. Also, the diversity and style of the Phoenician letters varies through the years of minting.

Uploaded it and may the best man win.  Sam has a nice one too!

Offline esnible

  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 926
    • gorgon coins
Re: Phoenicia Arados - Bronze
« Reply #26 on: March 18, 2014, 09:18:03 pm »
I wonder if LINK REMOVED BY MODERATOR could be a coin of Arados?

The seller believed it to be from Praisos Crete based on a mistake by Svoronos.

The reason I mention it is that the same seller attempted to sell http://wildwinds.com/coins/greece/ionia/ephesos/AE14_tessera.jpg.  I wish I had bought it, as it is very likely from Arados, and extremely rare.

The style of the bee or insect on the reverse of the "Praisos" coin is very different though, so I cannot be sure it is from the same mint as the other example.  Arados had a tradition of diobols with the face of Medusa.

Taras

  • Guest
Re: Phoenicia Arados - Bronze
« Reply #27 on: March 19, 2014, 02:22:30 pm »
I wonder if LINK REMOVED BY MODERATOR could be a coin of Arados?

The seller believed it to be from Praisos Crete based on a mistake by Svoronos.

The reason I mention it is that the same seller attempted to sell http://wildwinds.com/coins/greece/ionia/ephesos/AE14_tessera.jpg.  I wish I had bought it, as it is very likely from Arados, and extremely rare.

The style of the bee or insect on the reverse of the "Praisos" coin is very different though, so I cannot be sure it is from the same mint as the other example.  Arados had a tradition of diobols with the face of Medusa.

esnible please do not post links to any online shop, it's against the rules of FORVM.
Next time you can copy/paste description in the text of your reply and attach the pic, this time I'll do it for you.

Regards
Nico



CRETE, Praisos. Circa 4th-3rd century BC. Æ 13mm (2.13 g, 1h). Facing head of Medusa, with small wings at sides of head, serpents around neck / Bee with open wings; rose to left. Apparently unpublished. Good VF, smooth green patina.

From the David Herman Collection.

The bee with flower symbol would seem to confirm the attribution of this unrecorded bronze to Praisos. These same types appear on the reverse of silver hemidrachms (cf. Svoronos 43 and SNG Copenhagen 542). A Medusa head is less emblematic of Crete; the only use of the type found in Svoronos is on two small bronzes (pl. XXXI, 19-20) with caduceus reverse. These Medusa / Caduceus coins are found on Crete, but cannot be further attributed. It should be noted that the style of this head is much superior to the type illustrated in Svoronos, and in fact surpasses most of the bronze coins of Crete.

Offline Arados

  • Comitia Curiata
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 1717
Re: Phoenicia Arados - Bronze
« Reply #28 on: March 19, 2014, 03:57:40 pm »
I wonder if this could be a coin of Arados? (Link removed).

The seller believed it to be from Praisos Crete based on a mistake by Svoronos.

The reason I mention it is that the same seller attempted to sell http://wildwinds.com/coins/greece/ionia/ephesos/AE14_tessera.jpg.  I wish I had bought it, as it is very likely from Arados, and extremely rare.

The style of the bee or insect on the reverse of the "Praisos" coin is very different though, so I cannot be sure it is from the same mint as the other example.  Arados had a tradition of diobols with the face of Medusa.

If we can start with the coin from Praisos Crete. I am convinced beyond any shadow of a doubt that the coin does not derive from Arados or for that matter Phoenicia. Granted, there is a resemblance to the winged head of medusa coins of Arados, serie VIII, which are listed in Duyrat 2005, HGC 10 and BMC Phoenicia. The Medusa coins of Arados have a naivety about them, for example, elongated bridge of nose extending to middle of forehead (boxers nose), beady eyes and winged head. There are no phoenician letters or era date on the coin in question, which strikes me also has strange. In addition, if we are to assume that the date was correct on the Praisos Crete coin, then that alone would discount it from being Phoenician. Due to the whole of the Levant and Syria being under the control of Persia until Alexander The Great´s conquest in 332 B.C. Just a quick glance of the coin in your first link, for me, disproves any connection whats so ever. In fact, i would have been more convinced if you had believed the coin originated from Mysia, Parion instead. I´m in no way an expert in that particular area of collecting by any means, but feel one should possibly look to Mysia first, for identification. Maybe one of our members with more authority can strengthen my view or place the coin in another area.

See image in previous post.


But has for your second link, then yes your now in the right area. In fact the coin you so nearly bought, would not have looked out of place in my collection. It is indeed a coin from Gabala, Phoenicia and can be found on page 48 of HGC 10 No.171. I´m not exactly sure of the era date but somewhere between 180-203 or 80-56 B.C. The era date and phoenician letters are unfortunately unreadable, but there´s no mistaking where it was minted.

Thanks and please let me know if you find any more Gabala coins for sale.  +++ ;)

Just for reference, see below for Arados coin serie VIII, Image 1.

Edit: Image 2 is the Gabala coin shown in esnible´s link.

All the best
Arados

Offline esnible

  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 926
    • gorgon coins
Re: Phoenicia Arados - Bronze
« Reply #29 on: March 19, 2014, 08:06:06 pm »
But has for your second link, then yes your now in the right area. In fact the coin you so nearly bought, would not have looked out of place in my collection. It is indeed a coin from Gabala, Phoenicia and can be found on page 48 of HGC 10 No.171. I´m not exactly sure of the era date but somewhere between 180-203 or 80-56 B.C. The era date and phoenician letters are unfortunately unreadable, but there´s no mistaking where it was minted.

I don't have Hoover's catalog.  A much higher grade specimen of the gorgon/bee coin, with date ΘΠΡ, was sold by Bankhaus H. Aufhäuser in their October 1991 auction.  I believe they attributed it to Arados.  Does Hoover cite anyone for the Gabala attribution or is it his own?  Arados also issued bee/stag drachms that resemble Ephesos drachms.  So when I saw the gorgon/bee combo I reached the same conclusion as the Bankhaus H. Aufhäuser cataloger.

I did a web search and found Hoover wrote a two page article in Schweizer Müunzblätter. Gazette Numismatique Suisse v. 225, March 2007.  I will look there.

The "Praisos" coin does have some resemblance to bronze coins of Parion however it seems much more sophisticated.  I will have to take another look for that insect, which does not resemble any Greek coins I know.

Offline esnible

  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 926
    • gorgon coins
Re: Phoenicia Arados - Bronze
« Reply #30 on: March 20, 2014, 11:49:28 am »
Granted, there is a resemblance to the winged head of medusa coins of Arados, serie VIII, which are listed in Duyrat 2005, HGC 10 and BMC Phoenicia. The Medusa coins of Arados have a naivety about them, for example, elongated bridge of nose extending to middle of forehead (boxers nose), beady eyes and winged head.

The diobols have no city name on them.  Why are we sure the diobols come from Arados and not, say, Gabala?

George Hill said (in BMC Phoencia) that the British Museum acquired a diobol from the Rollin Sale in 1853.  I don’t know how the Rollin cataloger attributed it.  Frédérique Duyrat says that the aphlaston also appears on small bronzes of Arados, and that there are Arados tetradrachms marked with the same years, ΘΜΡ and NΡ, meaning 149 and 150.  Could that be the reason?  Seems inconclusive...

Offline Arados

  • Comitia Curiata
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 1717
Re: Phoenicia Arados - Bronze
« Reply #31 on: March 24, 2014, 07:54:07 am »
Granted, there is a resemblance to the winged head of medusa coins of Arados, serie VIII, which are listed in Duyrat 2005, HGC 10 and BMC Phoenicia. The Medusa coins of Arados have a naivety about them, for example, elongated bridge of nose extending to middle of forehead (boxers nose), beady eyes and winged head.

The diobols have no city name on them.  Why are we sure the diobols come from Arados and not, say, Gabala?

George Hill said (in BMC Phoencia) that the British Museum acquired a diobol from the Rollin Sale in 1853.  I don’t know how the Rollin cataloger attributed it.  Frédérique Duyrat says that the aphlaston also appears on small bronzes of Arados, and that there are Arados tetradrachms marked with the same years, ΘΜΡ and NΡ, meaning 149 and 150.  Could that be the reason?  Seems inconclusive...

Why don't these Diobols have any city names on them and should these coins be attributed to Arados or Gabala ?


Fascinating question and one i feel will not be satisfactorily answered, we still have so much to learn about the Phoenicians and certain areas of their coinage.

If we use the usual methods of identification, this will hopefully give us a better understanding of where these coins were minted.


If we take a closer look at the date, ΘΠΡ to the left of Aphlaston on the reverse (image 1), this alone gives little or no help towards identification, ΘΠΡ can be found on many coins originating from the Levant and Koile. If we then take into account both the date ΘΠΡ and monogram which consists of  :phoenician_gimel_1: (gimel) and BC. Browsing through catalogs, one can quickly find coins showing the same date and monogram on denominations from other coinage of Arados, i.e Tetradrachms (image 2). There is no doubt that these originated from Arados, the cities name can be clearly seen in right field, ΑΡΑΔΙΩΝ.  

There is however another connection that surely must be taken into consideration, namely the theme that many Aradian coins share. Coins depicting sea deities and various parts of ships, including Aphlaston (Aplustre).  Although, admittedly slightly different in style to série 8 coins in Duyrat 2005 (image 3), the Diobol in question also shares a similar type of Aphlaston on the reverse.


We need to note for the record that Gabala was originally located a few kilometers south of Laodicean and developed around a small harbour in the centre of a fertile coastal plain, this could be one possible explanation for a Aphlaston on city coins. (H. Seyrig described the city as prosperous but dull. It was partially excavated by a Danish team that uncovered a grid plan of the Hellenistic period, the city was rebuilt before that time, further away from the previous site and according to Greek standards).

Most coins of Gabal have their own monogram, ΓB or the cities name ΓABAΛEΩN.



Ultimately when looking at the coins overall appearence (image 1) i.e fabric, look, date, monogram :phoenician_gimel_1: (gimel), letters BC, theme (Aphlaston), then i would tentatively agree with Rouvier, Seyrig and Duyrat.

Rouvier, attributed a coin of this type (image 4) in his published work of Numismatique-des-villes-de-la-Phenicie-1-Arados-ile-et-metropole-Jules-Rouvier in 1900 (see link below). Until more coins are discovered, then i think we should keep an open mind.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/100733254/Numismatique-des-villes-de-la-Phenicie-1-Arados-ile-et-metropole-Jules-Rouvier


 
Has this coin been wrongly attributed and does BC actually refer to ΓB ?

Why do we find medusa/Aphlaston attributed to Arados and Medusa/Bee to Gabala (Image 5) ?

Can we factor in the development of a small harbour in Gabala, possible giving weight to the true identity of the Medusa/Aphlaston coin ?



Offline Arados

  • Comitia Curiata
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 1717
Re: Phoenicia Arados - Bronze
« Reply #33 on: April 07, 2014, 07:00:37 am »
Thanks for sharing Nico, i´m very curious to find out what Frédérique has written in her revision. But first i will have some translating to do.  +++

P.S I am in the middle of my own revision regarding série 13 in Duyrat 2005, buste d’Hélios/grappes et pampres. We might have to re-think the era date for 4609-4610, to be fair she did state that the dates on these two coins were illegible.

Taras

  • Guest
Re: Phoenicia Arados - Bronze
« Reply #34 on: April 07, 2014, 03:54:13 pm »
Thanks for sharing Nico, i´m very curious to find out what Frédérique has written in her revision. But first i will have some translating to do.  +++

P.S I am in the middle of my own revision regarding série 13 in Duyrat 2005, buste d’Hélios/grappes et pampres. We might have to re-think the era date for 4609-4610, to be fair she did state that the dates on these two coins were illegible.

Congratulations, I can't wait to read your work
:)

Offline Arados

  • Comitia Curiata
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 1717
Re: Phoenicia Arados - Bronze
« Reply #35 on: May 02, 2014, 11:44:07 am »
"My Revision Of Series AR-HBVG (Duyrat Série 13) - Duyrat 2005"


Total coin studied 27


Au droit: tête ou buste d’Hélios radié à droite. Grènetis.
Obverse: Radiate bust of Helios, border of dots.


Au revers: épis, grappes et pampres de vigne dans une corbeille.
Reverse: Small basket containing two ears of barley and branch of vine with bunch of grapes.


A revision of this series was long overdue in my opinion, mainly because of the uncertainty surrounding some of the era dates in Duyrat 2005 and the discovery of three entirely new years of coin production. For those of you who have already purchased this wonderful book, i offer this update. Before we get started i would like to take this opportunity in thanking BNF, BMC and Molinari for kindly allowing me to use their imagery. Also an additional thanks to all the anonymous owners of this type used in verifying era dates and lettering/mint marks. For the record, i contributed with two série 13 coins of which one was extremely useful in respect to confirming a disputed era date, but alas i deemed the coin unsuitable for publication and choose not to add it to the mosaic below. However it will be uploaded to my gallery at a later date.

I have highlighted the new era dates in bold letters, map key abbreviations can be seen below.

(N.A)=Not available for study.
(N)=New era dated confirmed.
(C)=Era date confirmed.
* (No)= Can be seen on mosaic.

An 166 : PΞς (94/3), B, Gimel) (Greek/Phoenician letters),     (C).
4603    D1-R1,Paris,BNF, H.Seyrig1973239.3,85g,18,9mm,12 h,     * (No.1).
4604    D2-R2, collection Lindgren, no 1345. 6,55 g.An 231 : ÇLA (29/8), ’, M, H,      (N.A).

An 231 : CΛA (29/8), ’, M, H (Greek/Phoenician letters),     (C).
4605    D3-R3, Berlin, SM, Löbbecke (1906). 5,63 g, 21,5 mm,12 h.  
4605b  D4-R4, Paris,BNF,     * (No.2)    

An 233 ? CΛΓ (Era 233/27-26 B.C) : [Ç]LG (27/6), ’, M, Y, Q. (Phoenician letters - Aleph Mem Yodh Qoth),     (C).
4606    D4-R4, Paris, BNF, Waddington. 7,23 g, 22,7 mm, 12 h,     * (No.3)

An 277 : ΣOZ (Era date 277/18-19 A.D), ΑΡΑΔΙΩΝ.
N dans le champ droit. Date illisible (Unreadable date) - With the help of my coin and three others previously unpublished i was able to confirm the era date for type 4609/10 has 277,     (N).
4609    D6-R6, Berlin, SM, Imhoof-Blumer (1900). 8,35 g, 20,3 mm, 12 h.
4610    D6-R7, New York, ANS 1953 171 1645,     (N.A).
4610b  D6-R8, Paris BNF.
4610c  D6-R9, Paris BNF.
4610d  D6-R10 Paris BNF,     *(No.4)
4610e  D6-R11 Collection Arados GS.

An 281 : ΣΠA  (21/22 de notre ère), Q (Phoenician letter Qoph), ΑΡΑΔΙΩΝ - Wrong A.D date in catalogue (Era date 281/22-23 A.D),      (C).
4611    D7-R8, Berlin, SM, Löbbecke (1906). 6,39 g, 22,8 mm, 12 h.
4611b  D7-R9, BMC.
4611c   D7-R10, Paris BNF,     *(No.5)
4611d   D7-R11, Paris BNF.

An 282-296 : (Era date 282-296/24-28 A.D), G (Phoenician letter Gimel), ΑΡΑΔΙΩΝ - Style similar to era 281 and 297.
4618     D1-R1, Paris BNF,     * (No.6)


An 297 : ΣϘZ (Era date 297/38-39 A.D), G (Phoenician letter Gimel), ΑΡΑΔΙΩΝ,     (N).
4619     D1-R1, BMC,      *(No.7).


An 352 ? : BNT (Era date 352/93-94 A.D), Q (Phoenician letter Qoph), ΑΡΑΔΙΩΝ,     (C).
4612     D8-R9, Berlin, SM, Löbbecke (1906). 5,94 g, 20,6 mm, 12 h,     (N.A).
4613     D8-R10?, collection Lindgren, no 1346. 5,57 g,     (N.A).
4614     D8-R10?, Munich, no 22. 5,12 g, 6 h.
4615     D8-R10, Paris, BNF, collection Delepierre no 16. 7,50 g, 19,7 mm, 12 h.
4616     D8-R11, collection Weber, no 8027. 5,24 g,     (N.A).
4616b   D8-R12, BMC.
4616c   D8-R13, Paris BNF.
4616d   D8-R14, Paris BNF.
4616e   D8-R15, Collection Molinari,     * ( No.8 )   ;D

An 365 : EΞT (Era date 365/106/107 A.D), Q (Phoenician letter Qoph), ΑΡΑΔΙΩΝ,     (N).
4620     D1-R1, BMC,     * (No.9).
4621     D1-R1, Collection Arados GT.


An 375 : (273 ?) : EOT (13/14 de notre ère), Q (Phoenician letter Qoph), ΑΡΑΔΙΩΝ. Wrong Era date in catalogue (Era date 375/116-117 A.D),     (N).
4607     D5-R5, Berlin, SM, C. R. Fox (1873). 5,61 g, 21,1 mm, 12 h,     (N.A).
4608     D5-R5, Berlin, SM, Löbbecke (1906). 8,04 g, 21,2 mm, 12 h.
4608b   D5-R6, Private collector.
4608c   D5-R7, Paris BNF.
4608d   D5-R8, Paris BNF,     * (No.10).

Hopefully this will help with further identification of Série 13 coins in the future, i look forward to filling in possible new dates if and when they are discovered. I am pretty certain during the 108 years or more of production that these coins were more widely produced than the ten occasions i´m aware of.

P.S My full respect to all who undertake in writing/compiling books for publication or personal need.

Edit: Strange, the red highlighting do not show up on my Mac. Can anybody else see red highlights ?

Edit/Edit: Red highlights have been removed.

Offline Molinari

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 4549
  • My defeat, if understood, should be my glory
Re: Phoenicia Arados - Bronze
« Reply #36 on: May 02, 2014, 11:57:02 am »
I can only see the red on the image and just for my coin in the original post.

However, when I look down as I write this reply, your message has all the red highlights, which is really confusing.

Anyway,  the 4616e designation, is the "e" your addition or original to Duyrat?

Very nice work, congratulations!

Nick

Offline Arados

  • Comitia Curiata
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 1717
Re: Phoenicia Arados - Bronze
« Reply #37 on: May 02, 2014, 12:26:00 pm »
I can only see the red on the image and just for my coin in the original post.

However, when I look down as I write this reply, your message has all the red highlights, which is really confusing.

Anyway,  the 4616e designation, is the "e" your addition or original to Duyrat?

Very nice work, congratulations!

Nick

Thanks for the feedback Nick, i have now removed the red highlights. Has for for the letter "e", yes this was my own addition. I could have renumbered the coins listed in my revision but this could have caused even more confusion. What are your thoughts on renumbering, would collectors automatically turn to my references for these coins ? I´m not too sure, i have still a long learning curve ahead of me.  ;)

Martin R

Offline Molinari

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 4549
  • My defeat, if understood, should be my glory
Re: Phoenicia Arados - Bronze
« Reply #38 on: May 02, 2014, 12:40:23 pm »
If it's published in a peer reviewed journal or book then I would renumber, and add a section of concordances with Duyrat.  But for a Forvm post I think you made the right decision.


Offline Arados

  • Comitia Curiata
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 1717
Re: Phoenicia Arados - Bronze
« Reply #39 on: May 28, 2014, 01:23:23 pm »
Series AR-TPF (Duyrat Série 2)


Phoenicia, Arados 210-209 B.C

AE 14.01mm (Thickness 3.04mm), weight 2.97g, die axis = 1h (30 degrees), denomination D.

Obverse: Turreted bust of Tyche right, border of dots.

Reverse: Palm Tree with fruit, from right to left in middle field Aradian era date 50, Phoenician letters ayin (`) bottom right and resh (R) bottom left.

Duyrat 200 Pg.51 No.1637-1639; HGC 10 Pg.24 No.91.



The following type of bronzes (image 1) were attributed to Arados by archaeologist and avid numismatic Henri Seyrig. Although we again find an Aradian coin lacking the city monogram of AP, we can with most probability confirm the coins origin purely by comparing the bust of Tyche with other coins of this city. Namely Série 3, indeed era date 50 of Série 3 appears to be most likely from the same engraver.  

I managed to find seven of the thirteen coins documented in Duyrat 2005 that reside in the Paris museum (BNF), i have studied these coins closely and have found some discrepancies regarding the lettering bottom left. The majority of the Paris coins have resh (R) bottom left and not daleth (D) or nun (N) has stated in Duyrat´s publication (exception being coin no.8 with uncertain era date - image 2).

Many thanks to BNF for graciously permitting the use of imagery and to Duyrat who’s publications are by far the most comprehensive regarding Arados and will probably remain so for the foreseeable future.

13 exemplaires / examples
Au droit : tête de Tyché à droite. Grènetis (Head of Tyche right, beading).

Au revers : palmier. Date et lettres phéniciennes de part et d’autre de l’arbre. Grènetis (Palm, date and Phoenician letters on both sides of the tree, beading).

AR era date 41 (219/8), N ?

1630 *D1-R1, New York, ANS 1944 100 70556 Newell. 1,62 g, 10,5 mm, 12 h.

AR era date 45 (215/4), ‘, D

1631 *D2?-R2, Paris, BNF, H. Seyrig Y28883,6. 2,60 g, 17,0 mm, 1 h. ( Image 2, No.1 )
Uncertain era date, but possibly 45 or 46. ( Image 2, No2 )


AR era date 46 (214/3)
1632  D2-R3, New York, ANS 1944 100 70535 Newell. 2,60 g, 15,1 mm, 1 h.
1633  *D2-R3,Paris,BNF, H.SeyrigY28883,7.2,73g,14,6mm, 12 h. ( Image 2, No.3 )

AR era date 48 (212/1), ‘, D ?

1634 D3-R4, Paris, BNF, 1973 209. 3,45 g, 15,0 mm, 12 h.
1635 *D3-R5, Paris, BNF, H. Seyrig 1965 736. 4,44 g, 15,1 mm, 12 h. ( Image 2, No.4 )

1636 D3-R6, Beyrouth, AUB Museum, no 29. 3,16 g, 13 mm, 12 h.

AR era date 50 (210/209), ‘, N

1637 *D4-R7, collection A. Ronde.

1638 *D5-R8,Paris,BNF, H.Seyrig1970260.1,05g,10,7mm, 12 h.
1639 *D6-R9, Paris, BNF, H. Seyrig Y28883,10. 3,37 g, 13,9 mm, 12 h. ( Image 2, No.5 )
1639b *D6-R10, Collection Arados. ( Image 3, No.6 )

AR era date 64 (196/5), ‘, [-]

1640 *D7-R10, Paris, BNF, H. Seyrig Y28883,15. 1,50 g, 12,3 mm, 12 h. ( Image 2, No.7 )

Date illisible / Uncertain date.
1641 D8-R11, Paris, BNF, 1973 44. 2,17 g, 14,1 mm, 12 h. ( Image 2, No.8 )
1642 D9-R12, New York, ANS 1944 100 70536 Newell. 1,08 g, 11,8 mm, 12 h.

Offline Arados

  • Comitia Curiata
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 1717
Re: Phoenicia Arados - Bronze
« Reply #40 on: June 22, 2014, 10:21:38 am »
Series AR-TPFA ( Duyrat Série 8 )

This coin was owned by no other than Henry Clay Lindgren and was purchased from Joe via the Butte Foundation. I am well chuffed to have bought this coin of enormous historical value that once resided in Lindgren´s own personal collection. Has of yet this era date has never been published and to my knowledge only one more example can be found in BNF. Inevitably there has to be more of these coins sharing the same era date in numerous private collections, but for now lets say prohibitively rare or URS 3.

Phoenicia, Arados 115-114 B.C

AE 11.71mm (Thickness 2.58mm), weight 1.91g, die axis = 1h (30 degrees), denomination D (Hemichalkous).

Obverse: Turreted head of Tyche right, chignon & braided ponytail, palm frond behind.

Reverse: Aphlaston (Aplustre), Phoenician letters taw (T) taw (T) & yodh (Y) in right field, Aradian era date 145 left and Phoeniciain letter gimel (G) far left.

Offline Arados

  • Comitia Curiata
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 1717
Re: Phoenicia Arados - Bronze
« Reply #41 on: June 22, 2014, 11:42:22 am »
My photography is unfortunately not up to scratch and does not do Lindgren´s coin justice, here is the original coin shop image used by Joe and his team.

Offline Arados

  • Comitia Curiata
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 1717
Re: Phoenicia Arados - Bronze
« Reply #42 on: June 23, 2014, 03:54:35 pm »
Series AR-AEHB

I was browsing through the Paris museum coin collection a few months back and noticed these fascinating coins with a total of seven different Roman Emperors spanning 123 years. I have searched the internet looking for more information but cannot seem to find any detailed essays about these coins. Most of you guys know that my interest in Aradian coinage is based more on pre-Imperial times. If anybody knows of a more detailed description of this type and is willing to share that knowledge i would very much appreciate their help. (Roman Emperors are not my strong point)
Could the reason this series came to a abrupt end have anything to do with the coin that followed, similar in many ways i.e Humped Bull but depicting Marcus Aurelius and Lucius Versus confronted on the obverse, replacing Astarte-Europe and Emperor (BMC Phoenicia Pg.48 No.379).

I have attributed these coins based on the information in BMC Phoenicia and Lindgren III.

Phoenicia, Arados (Various dates)

Obverse: Bust of Astarte-Europa right with laureate head of Emperor.

Reverse: Humped bull galloping left, head facing, Phoenician letter beneath bulls head, Aradian various era dates above, ΑΡΑΔΙWΝ (of the Aradians) below.

Image description;

1: Augustus, era date 252 (8-7 B.C)
2: Tiberius, era date 284 (25-26 A.D)
3: Caligula, era date 297 (38-39 A.D)
4: Claudius, era date 307 (48-49 A.D)
5: Nero, era date 325 (66-67 A.D)
6: Domitian, era date 352 (93-94 A.D)
7: Trajan, era date 375 (116-117 A.D)
8: Coin i bought recently, also Trajan, era date 375.
9: Trajan, era date 365 (106-107 A.D), is there any particular reason why Trajan had these coins minted on two separate dates.

Thanks to CNG/BNF/ACS for imagery.

Offline Pekka K

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 7336
  • ...one coin at a time...
Re: Phoenicia Arados - Bronze
« Reply #43 on: June 24, 2014, 02:20:26 am »
RPC I lists this type (galloping bull) as numbers:

4466, 4467, 4473, 4474, 4482 - 4486, 4488 & 4492.

Pekka K

ps. RPC II numbers for Arados are 2039 - 2043.

Offline Arados

  • Comitia Curiata
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 1717
Re: Phoenicia Arados - Bronze
« Reply #44 on: June 24, 2014, 03:24:54 pm »
RPC I lists this type (galloping bull) as numbers:

4466, 4467, 4473, 4474, 4482 - 4486, 4488 & 4492.

Pekka K

ps. RPC II numbers for Arados are 2039 - 2043.

Thanks Pekka, i managed to locate six more coins using RPC I and have now filled in a couple of the missing era dates.

Including imagery of Augustus era date 258 ΣNH (2-1 B.C), Tiberius era date 286 ς ΠΣ (27-28 A.D).

Offline Arados

  • Comitia Curiata
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 1717
Re: Phoenicia Arados - Bronze
« Reply #45 on: June 24, 2014, 03:48:16 pm »
According to RPC I the countermarks on coin 1 (Caligula) and coin 2-3 (Claudius) are depicting Tyche. I suppose that yes there is a face on all three coins but i´m not convinced they are of the same deity. Any thoughts or ideas who the busts belong to if not Tyche ?

The countermarks i found that were not mentioned in RPC are of what appears to be a soldier/figure walking left holding spear, No.4 (Domitian) 5-6 (Trajan). Has anybody got any theories of who this mystery person could be ?

Offline Arados

  • Comitia Curiata
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 1717
Re: Phoenicia Arados - Bronze
« Reply #46 on: June 29, 2014, 11:06:18 am »
Update for type Bust of Astarte-Europa right and galloping bull with laureate head of Emperor.

Lee S suggested that countermarks 4, 5 and 6 (image above) were possibly winged Victory holding sceptre, i´m pretty sure when taking a closer look that winged Victory advancing left can in fact be seen on these coins. Thanks Lee  +++

The remaining countermarks are still open for debate, still not convinced that they portray Tyche.

As of yet, there have been no further finds of this type between 68-81 A.D. Initially, i suppose we can disclude the Year of the Four Emperors (Galba,Otho,Vitellius & Vespasian) for their reign was very short lived. Titus i suppose may have commanded the minting of this type but inevitably time was also against him.

I include a collage and close up of the seven emperors that have so far been documented on these intriguing coins.

From left to right

Augustus, Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius, Nero, Domitian & Trajan.

 

Offline Arados

  • Comitia Curiata
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 1717
Re: Phoenicia Arados - Bronze
« Reply #47 on: July 28, 2014, 04:32:44 pm »
Double stuck reverse

Phoenicia, Arados 130-129 B.C

AE 21.85mm (Thickness 2.76mm), weight 6.81g, die axis = 12h (0 degrees), denomination B.

Obverse: Turreted head of Tyche right, braided ponytail, palm frond behind.

Reverse: Poseidon seated left on prow of galley left with (Ἀθηνᾶ Πρόμαχος) Athena figurehead, holding wreath in right, trident in left, Phoenician letters nun (N) and aleph (´) above, Aradian era date 130 below. (Double strike has obliterated Phoenician letter normally found far bottom)

Quite a common coin in most respects when taking into consideration era date and type, apart from this coin has clear ghosting on the reverse side with significant distancing between strikes. Note the dual dating below with the first strike covering the lower part of the galley just right of the battering ram, also one can clearly see Athena x2 top left and two wreaths between Poseidon and Athena. Personally i feel these double strikes are still an attractive buy for any collector and writing about them will help to increase the curiosity surrounding these uniquely struck mints. To a specialist collector like myself these coins need to be documented and kept save for future generations.

Offline Arados

  • Comitia Curiata
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 1717
Re: Phoenicia Arados - Bronze
« Reply #48 on: August 12, 2014, 02:23:49 pm »
Update

"My Revision Of Series AR-HBVG (Duyrat Série 13) - Duyrat 2005"


Total coin studied 28


Au droit: tête ou buste d’Hélios radié à droite. Grènetis.
Obverse: Radiate bust of Helios, border of dots.

Au revers: épis, grappes et pampres de vigne dans une corbeille.
Reverse: Small basket containing two ears of barley and branch of vine with bunch of grapes.


I have highlighted my new coin in bold letters, map key abbreviations can be seen below.

(N.A)=Not available for study.
(N)=New era dated confirmed.
(C)=Era date confirmed.
* (No)= Can be seen on mosaic posted 2nd May 2014.

An 166 : PΞς (94/3), B, Gimel) (Greek/Phoenician letters),     (C).
4603    D1-R1,Paris,BNF, H.Seyrig1973239.3,85g,18,9mm,12 h,     * (No.1).
4604    D2-R2, collection Lindgren, no 1345. 6,55 g.An 231 : ÇLA (29/8), ’, M, H,      (N.A).

An 231 : CΛA (29/8), ’, M, H (Greek/Phoenician letters),     (C).
4605    D3-R3, Berlin, SM, Löbbecke (1906). 5,63 g, 21,5 mm,12 h.  
4605b  D4-R4, Paris,BNF,     * (No.2).    

An 233 ? CΛΓ (Era 233/27-26 B.C) : [Ç]LG (27/6), ’, M, Y, Q. (Phoenician letters - Aleph Mem Yodh Qoth),     (C).
4606    D4-R4, Paris, BNF, Waddington. 7,23 g, 22,7 mm, 12 h,     * (No.3).

An 277 : ΣOZ (Era date 277/18-19 A.D), ΑΡΑΔΙΩΝ.
N dans le champ droit. Date illisible (Unreadable date) - With the help of my coin and three others previously unpublished i was able to confirm the era date for type 4609/10 has 277,     (N).
4609    D6-R6, Berlin, SM, Imhoof-Blumer (1900). 8,35 g, 20,3 mm, 12 h.
4610    D6-R7, New York, ANS 1953 171 1645,     (N.A).
4610b  D6-R8, Paris BNF.
4610c  D6-R9, Paris BNF.
4610d  D6-R10 Paris BNF,     *(No.4).
4610e  D6-R11 Collection Arados GS.

An 281 : ΣΠA  (21/22 de notre ère), Q (Phoenician letter Qoph), ΑΡΑΔΙΩΝ - Wrong A.D date in catalogue (Era date 281/22-23 A.D),      (C).
4611    D7-R8, Berlin, SM, Löbbecke (1906). 6,39 g, 22,8 mm, 12 h.
4611b  D7-R9, BM.
4611c   D7-R10, Paris BNF,     *(No.5).
4611d   D7-R11, Paris BNF.

An 282-296 : (Era date 282-296/24-28 A.D), G (Phoenician letter Gimel), ΑΡΑΔΙΩΝ - Style similar to era 281 and 297.
4618     D1-R1, Paris BNF,     * (No.6).

An 297 : ΣϘZ (Era date 297/38-39 A.D), G (Phoenician letter Gimel), ΑΡΑΔΙΩΝ,     (N).
4619     D1-R1, BM,      *(No.7).

An 352 ? : BNT (Era date 352/93-94 A.D), Q (Phoenician letter Qoph), ΑΡΑΔΙΩΝ,     (C).
4612     D8-R9, Berlin, SM, Löbbecke (1906). 5,94 g, 20,6 mm, 12 h,     (N.A).
4613     D8-R10?, collection Lindgren, no 1346. 5,57 g,     (N.A).
4614     D8-R10?, Munich, no 22. 5,12 g, 6 h.
4615     D8-R10, Paris, BNF, collection Delepierre no 16. 7,50 g, 19,7 mm, 12 h.
4616     D8-R11, collection Weber, no 8027. 5,24 g,     (N.A).
4616b   D8-R12, BM.
4616c   D8-R13, Paris BNF.
4616d   D8-R14, Paris BNF.
4616e   D8-R15, Collection Molinari,     * ( No.8 ).
4616f   D8-R16, Collection Arados HZ. (Image below)

An 365 : EΞT (Era date 365/106/107 A.D), Q (Phoenician letter Qoph), ΑΡΑΔΙΩΝ,     (N).
4620     D1-R1, BM,     * (No.9).
4621     D1-R1, Collection Arados GT.

An 375 : (273 ?) : EOT (13/14 de notre ère), Q (Phoenician letter Qoph), ΑΡΑΔΙΩΝ. Wrong Era date in catalogue (Era date 375/116-117 A.D),     (N).
4607     D5-R5, Berlin, SM, C. R. Fox (1873). 5,61 g, 21,1 mm, 12 h,     (N.A).
4608     D5-R5, Berlin, SM, Löbbecke (1906). 8,04 g, 21,2 mm, 12 h.
4608b   D5-R6, Private collector.
4608c   D5-R7, Paris BNF.
4608d   D5-R8, Paris BNF,     * (No.10).

I am very pleased with the quality of my latest Série 13 which i managed to acquire for a very reasonable price. A most welcome addition to this ongoing study of these fascinating Radiate Helios type and hopefully not the last.

Offline Arados

  • Comitia Curiata
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 1717
Re: Phoenicia Arados - Bronze
« Reply #49 on: August 13, 2014, 01:02:00 pm »
Ex. H.C.Lindgren - "His legacy lives on in his coins and publications".

Please excuse my enthusiasm, here is another double struck coin but this time the previous owner was very well known. A spectacular specimen if i may say so myself, i wouldn't expect anything else from this highly respected collector. Beautiful patina and fine detail, in particular Poseidon.

On a sad note (get your violins out), i occasionally get the feeling that i am the only collector in the world who appreciates Phoenician coins, i do apologise if i offended anybody with my unfounded remark and lack of faith. I know there must be collectors out there who share my passion for this area of collecting. Has i have mentioned in previous posts, please feel free to upload your Aradian/Arados coins to this thread so as to promote and help build interest, i sincerely hope that i´m not the sole musician in this "Phoenician Numismatic one man band".  ;D


Thanks Joe for giving me the opportunity of buying this and other coins from Lindgren´s collection. Thumbs up Forum coin shop.  +++


Final attribution;

Phoenicia, Arados 131-130 B.C

AE 22.62mm (Thickness 2.54mm), weight 6.19g, die axis = 12h (0 degrees), denomination B.

Obverse: Turreted bust of Tyche right, braided ponytail, palm branch behind.

Reverse: Poseidon seated left on galley prow left with (Ἀθηνᾶ Πρόμαχος) Athena figurehead, wreath in his right hand and trident in left, Phoenician letters nun (N) and aleph (´) above, Aradain era date 129 with gimel (G) below.

The image on the left was taken in normal daylight and the one on the right with a flash.

The Phoenician coins appreciation group.  ;)

Arados

 

All coins are guaranteed for eternity