Questions on Shapur I and Vahran I Sassanid drachms

[Arya Aravand]

I needed some information regarding the signs on these two coins: one on the Shapur's crown and the other one on the reverse of his coin, on the fire altar
and also one behind the Vrahran's bust. I appreciate it if a reference or website is introduced.
My other question is about the translation of the second script line behind Vrahran's bust (the one including the symbol).

Arya

[aj]

1. Do you mean the signs on the silk hair container (korymbos)? Probably just decoration.
2. Sign on the fire alter is the dynastic symbol.
3. Not sure what you are referring to as 'behind the bust'.
4. The meaning of the small second line of text from memory may be an indication of some form of mint mark.

This is from memory of reading Sellwood et al book a long time ago.

[Howard Cole]

There are no mint marks on these coins.  The symbols that you point out on headdress and behind the bust, I believe are personal symbols but I would have to check in Gobl to be sure, if I can find my copy.  Also you can check out some of the sites listed at the top of this part of the board.

[aj]

From my distant memory and if someone has a copy of "An Introduction to Sasanian Coins" by Sellwood et al I remember that the last few lines of his summary of the coins of Varhran 1 said something like 'Gobl notes the occasional presence in the coin field of letters which may be mint indications." Now this is one of those memory things I dredge up from time to time but I clearly picture that in the hand writing the book was printed in.

[tkmallon]

There are lots of different symbols on the headgear of these early series.  See SNS I, pp. 262-264 for a chart.  It's a diadem symbol, sometimes called 'fravhar' (although I'm not sure it is entirely correct to call it that -- in the truest sense).  Same symbol as on the Varhran I drachm.  I don't know what the extra legend is; we'd need several examples to be sure.  Bob Schaaf has a nice example with clearer letterforms on my Varhran I page.  You can take a look at that.

The reverse symbol is trickier -- sort of a glorified Gondopharan symbol.  Probably represents one of the royal families.  It can be found on the headgear of the entourage depicted in the Firuzabad and Naqsh-i Najab investiture reliefs.  And is in use for at least 400 more years; still found on Hunnic coins of the early 8th century.  tom

[Arya Aravand]

Thank you friends,
Dear Tom, I found an example similar to my Vrahran I coin in your page from Bob Schaaf's collection:
http://www.grifterrec.com/coins/sasania/sas_rs/var_I/i_sas_varI_41_rs_o4.jpg

However, finding more similar types is not an easy job at all since by my knowledge this type is quite rare. But I think that using these two examples we would be able to read the second legend line and I appreciate it if you please provide a higher resolution photo of the coin on your page I referred above (if you have), so that we can identify the 5 or 6 letters.

Arya

[Howard Cole]

Here is what Gobl says about the symbol on the obverse of these two coins (page 15).  "... the wreath as investiture symbols ('fravahr' symbol) on the globe.  I have also found this symbol in the upper left field."  This was for Sapur I coins and others, especially Sapur II.  He seems to believe that many of these are investiture marks and others are related to the adoration of Anahit.

As for mint marks, Gobl states they may have started under Varhran I, on a gold dinar with the Pahlavi letter "h", but it is doubtful.  The really readable and clear mint marks begin with Hormizd II with the mint name abbrevation of Ray on the altar pillar.

Gobl really does not discuss the symbol on the altar pillar, but he does discuss symbols in the fields and says they may appear on the altar shaft.  These are the wreath of investiture symbol and the tarus symbol (bull's head).  The symbol on the shaft of the coin in this thread could be a combination of these two symbols.

[tkmallon]

I have this query in to SASAN-L:

"Can someone take a look at these extra legends? Are they
continuations of the normal legend or something else? Partially
reversed, upside down; odd variations?"

Screen sized:

http://www.grifterrec.com/y/sas-exper/varhranI_leg_sml.jpg


Large:

http://www.grifterrec.com/y/sas-exper/varhranI_leg_lrg.jpg

We'll see if there is any response.  In the meantime, some can try and make headway, and I'll go through them when I get a chance.  tom

[Arya Aravand]

Thank you so much for your informative and useful responses and also for the beautiful photos prepared by Tom.

...  Probably represents one of the royal families.  It can be found on the headgear of the entourage depicted in the Firuzabad and Naqsh-i Najab investiture reliefs...

About the symbols, as I made some more studies as well as inquiries from prof. Daryaee (Professor in the history of Iran and the Persianate World-University of California, Irvine), he believes that:
"...The symbol is usually called a tamgha or heraldic symbol that we find with certain Persian noble houses. Similar ones or comparable are those on the rock relief of Ardashir/Shapur fighting Ardavan in Feeroozabad..."
In the pictures below you can see Ardashir I and his son Shapur I (of Sassani) fighting Ardavan (Parthian last king) relief in Firooz Abad (Fars province-Iran). The obverse symbols can be clearly observed on Ardashir's horse and the reverse symbol can be identified very well on Shapur's horse.

Arya

[napki]

Tamgha is broad type of the many clan symbols common to steppe culture from prehistoric to modern time, believed to evolve from branding of horse. I think "tamgha" implicit in understanding of original question about "symbol". That said, question must come back round the circle to what is meaning (origin, derivation) of this specific tamgha/symbol with respect to claim of authority. Obviously an important symbol r.e. fascinating relief at Firuzabad. I am afraid I have not the answer but after new post photos, now I am catched like a fish on this topic.

[ardaxshir]

The first sign from the rock relief of Ardashir I is a diadem, symbol of kingship, claimed by the kings to be passed down either by Ahuramazda, Mithra, or Anahita(I think the eagle crown symbolized this).  I suggest you watch this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fzcw31S7jBo&list=LL8r_IW2lo7GlfJB1Lzf_MEA the professor describes Kingship and Religion and the importance of the symbols, there are also other symbols in Gobl's book from the sasanian coins.

[ardaxshir]

This is a table with all the signs on sasanian coins.

[Arya Aravand]

Dear Lacoast,

Do you have any source in which these symbols are interpreted?!

Greets,
Arya

[ardaxshir]

Its from a book called Sassanian coins (1921) by Valentine, W. H. (William H.)