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Author Topic: Help please for Gallienus from Nikomedia  (Read 6437 times)

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Offline Jochen

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Help please for Gallienus from Nikomedia
« on: February 25, 2007, 05:30:04 pm »
Hi!

Here I have an AE24 of Gallienus from Nikomedia where the legend are legible only partially. I have tried to complete them by legends from other coins of Nikomedia. Can anyone help me to confirm or deny it?

Bithynia, Nikomedia, Gallienus, AD 253-268
AE 24, 7.6g
obv. POV LI EG - G - [ALLIHNOC AVG] ?
       bust, draped and cuirassed, radiate, r.
rev. [NIKOMED]E - WN
       Dionysos, holding tyrsos and kantharos, std. l. in quadriga with elephants, advancing l.,
Ref.: SNG von Aulock725
very rare, good F/about VF, green patina

BTW A type with a similar rev. is known for Gordian III from Nikaia.

Anyone who has access to SNG von Aulock?

Thanks in advance!

Best regards

Offline Pscipio

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Re: Help please for Gallienus from Nikomedia
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2007, 05:57:32 pm »
Jochen,

I think your coin is from Nikaia, too, Rec. Gén. 836. The legends are: POY LI EG GALLIHN CEB / NIKAIEWN.

Lars
Leu Numismatik
www.leunumismatik.com

Offline Jochen

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Re: Help please for Gallienus from Nikomedia
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2007, 06:02:34 pm »
Thanks,Lars! I think that makes sense!

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Offline curtislclay

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Re: Help please for Gallienus from Nikomedia
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2007, 08:59:45 pm »
The Nicaeans regarded Dionysus as the mythical founder of their city, as expressed on the following coin of Pius ex CoinArchives, with the same rev. type but legend NIKAIEIC TON KTICTHN, "The Nicaeans (honor) their founder".
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Offline slokind

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Re: Help please for Gallienus from Nikomedia
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2007, 12:40:01 am »
...and here he is in his winnowing-basket cradle:
• 06 02 04 AE 17  2.54g  axis about 12:00  Nicaea.  Geta, bareheaded, head to r.  P SEPTI      [GETAS KAI probably].  Rev. The infant Dionysos in winnowing basket, reaching for grapes (?) or beseeching, as Imhoof-Blumer's 'betend' implies, the legend most likely being NIKAIEOmegaN.  See Head, HN p. 517, citing Imhoof-B.  (illus. in idem, JdI 1888, pl. 9, but not for Geta).    Pat L.

Offline Jochen

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Re: Help please for Gallienus from Nikomedia
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2007, 06:49:06 am »
Thanks all for your appreciated informations! The pics on CoinArchives show different rev.-legends, so one coin with WN in the ex., but that doesn't seem to change the attribution.

Additional another coin referring to Dionysos as founder of Nikaia. Sadly of low quality but very interesting nevertheless.

Bithynia, Nikaia, Caracalla, AD 198-217
AE 26, 12.35g
struck under Caracalla as Augustus AD 211-217
obv. ANTWNEINOC - AVGOVSTOC
Bust, draped and cuirassed, seen from behind, laureate, r.
rev. NIKAIEW / N (EW ligate)
Galley over waves l., 4 oarsmen sitting ahead, helmsman standing behind, at
front standard, at stern banner; emperor sitting l., holding spear and holding
patera in outstretched r. hand, in front of him standing Tyche of Nikaia and
presentinhg the young Dionysos to him, who raises his hands to him.
Very rare, F, unpublished?

The rev. belongs to a coin series of Nikaia which shows the emperor in a galley where he is welcomed by the local deities of Nikaia (cf. Rec.Gen.469f). A similar motive is found on a coin for Gordian III, where the City Tyche is presenting the young Dionysos to the sitting Roma (Rec.Gen.Taf.84, 27)

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Offline archivum

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Re: Help please for Gallienus from Nikomedia
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2008, 10:00:27 am »
Jochen, yours is an appealing description of a coin that is already published but otherwise described; first the Isegrim description:

PRO:   BITHYNIA
PO :   NICAEA
PZ :   Between 198 and 217
   Obverse
VSG:   ANTWNINOS AYGOYSTOS
VT :   PORTRAIT MAN R / CARACALLA
VA :   WREATH LAUREL / CLOTHES
   Reverse
RSG:   NIKAIEWN
RT :   SHIP L(1) / THEREIN / MAN SITTING L(2) / EMPEROR(2) <CARACALLA>
RA :   RAM(1) / SIGNA(1) / FIGURE R(1) / ASKLEPIOS(1) / PATERA(2) / STAFF(2)
   Technical details
M  :   AE
GR :   27.94(1)
   Bibliographical references
ZIT:   WADD RG S458,469(1) / BMC 11 S164,74(1)
   Additional remarks
FR :   VS: ANTWNINOS AYGOYSTOS RS: NIKAIEWN

Then the entry in Waddington's RG (Nicaea 469), naming the right-facing figure Serapis not Asklepios:

http://people.virginia.edu/~jdk3t/RG/RG1-3065.html

Waddington's illustration (lxxix.13):

http://people.virginia.edu/~jdk3t/RG/RG1-3194.html



Temper thy haste with sloth -- Taverner / Erasmus.

Offline Jochen

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Re: Help please for Gallienus from Nikomedia
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2008, 10:20:40 am »
Hi Archivum!

Thanks for your addition! But I'm missing the presentaton of the young Dionysos in the above descriptions! So this must be a different issue!

Best regards

Offline archivum

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Re: Help please for Gallienus from Nikomedia
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2008, 10:23:02 am »
Hello Jochen; if you check the RG illustration I think you'll agree that the types are essentially identical, just short of a die-match, though some details show better on one of these specimens and some on the other.
Temper thy haste with sloth -- Taverner / Erasmus.

Offline Jochen

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Re: Help please for Gallienus from Nikomedia
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2008, 04:56:50 pm »
So do you think that the child Dionysos in my description is only an artifact or an illusion?

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Offline archivum

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Re: Help please for Gallienus from Nikomedia
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2008, 05:48:56 pm »
No, I think your description may be right (it explains more than Isegrim's or Waddington's, especially with the analogy of lxxxiv.27 *); on the other hand, there is that curved-looking staff that the right-facing figure is holding -- it does look a bit like a serpent, whence the Isengrim entry describing the figure as Asklepios.  Perhaps it is Tyche presenting both baby Dionysos and the serpent from standard cista mystica rites, though in that case I'm very surprised that there's no cista mystica!

  * http://people.virginia.edu/~jdk3t/RG/RG1-3199.html, illustrating Nicaea 691 Gordian III http://people.virginia.edu/~jdk3t/RG/RG1-3093.html
Temper thy haste with sloth -- Taverner / Erasmus.

Offline Jochen

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Re: Help please for Gallienus from Nikomedia
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2008, 06:19:38 pm »
Thanks for your researches!

Jochen

Offline archivum

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Re: Help please for Gallienus from Nikomedia
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2008, 04:08:55 pm »
A somewhat sharper example of your galley-issue (the description suggests there are multiple versions), showing young Dionysos quite clearly:

http://www.coinarchives.com/a/lotviewer.php?LotID=15766&AucID=14&Lot=1482
Temper thy haste with sloth -- Taverner / Erasmus.

Offline Jochen

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Re: Help please for Gallienus from Nikomedia
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2008, 05:00:17 pm »
Hi Archivum!

Yes, from this CNG-coin I have my description!

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Offline archivum

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Re: Help please for Gallienus from Nikomedia
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2008, 08:02:26 pm »
This one's Gorny -- I think CNG isn't ready to switch to all-German descriptions!
Temper thy haste with sloth -- Taverner / Erasmus.

Offline curtislclay

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Re: Help please for Gallienus from Nikomedia
« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2008, 08:27:55 pm »
The Gorny coin seems to be from the same rev. die as Jochen's.

Jochen, you certainly should have cited this Gorny coin immediately, since you borrowed your description and references from that catalogue (always acknowledge your sources!), and since it is better preserved than your specimen, and in particular eliminates any doubt about whether the city goddess is or is not holding out the baby Dionysos!

It seems very likely that these types of Nicaean gods and goddesses welcoming Caracalla in a galley reflect his actual or hoped for visit to the city, presumably as he traversed Asia Minor in 214-5 on his way to Syria for his Parthian campaign.
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Offline archivum

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Re: Help please for Gallienus from Nikomedia
« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2008, 10:36:51 am »
CoinArchives also lists two sharp specimens of the variant galley-issue with Serapis not Tyche-Dionysos; I believe that the RG example is also Serapis instead of Asklepios (as alleged in the Isegrim entry for RG's example), since these two examples apparently from the same dies show the figure as holding a straight staff with no serpent-embellishments.

http://www.coinarchives.com/a/lotviewer.php?LotID=102494&AucID=110&Lot=680

http://www.coinarchives.com/a/lotviewer.php?LotID=115224&AucID=131&Lot=882
Temper thy haste with sloth -- Taverner / Erasmus.

 

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