FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board

Antiquities Discussion Forums => Other Antiquities => Topic started by: Jose L on January 12, 2022, 09:16:38 pm

Title: Need info about antique medal
Post by: Jose L on January 12, 2022, 09:16:38 pm
Hello, I'd like to know if somebody could give me a clue about this medal please. Thank you.
Title: Re: Need info about antique medal
Post by: SC on January 13, 2022, 08:24:03 am
Even though it is a medal and not a coin you might be better posting this in the Medieval coins section to get the right viewers.

And add weight and diameter.

SC
Title: Re: Need info about antique medal
Post by: Lech Stępniewski on January 13, 2022, 10:10:35 am
Medieval coins.

Probably much later. At least XV-XVI century.
Title: Re: Need info about antique medal
Post by: Steve Moulding on January 13, 2022, 11:29:15 am
Does anyone know what this is? I found it on some modern ecclesial heraldry. Is it a key?

Steve
Title: Re: Need info about antique medal
Post by: Steve Moulding on January 13, 2022, 12:12:31 pm
OK, it's the symbol associated with Saint Lawrence' martyrdom. So that is likely who is depicted on the left. That could help in identification.
Title: Re: Need info about antique medal
Post by: Ron C2 on January 13, 2022, 12:20:08 pm
Martyred in 258 under Valerian.

The Basilica of San Lorenzo Fuori le Mura (St. Lawrence Outside the Walls), Rome, was built over his burial place.

It might ba a tourism piece from the Basilica?
Title: Re: Need info about antique medal
Post by: SC on January 13, 2022, 04:59:03 pm
Then it is rather gruesome - a gridiron - as St. L was slow roasted over a fire. 

SC
Title: Re: Need info about antique medal
Post by: Steve Moulding on January 13, 2022, 07:43:55 pm
This is a much more recent medal but otherwise a quite similar obverse figure. 1977 Nürnberg, commemorating 500 years of the choir at the Lorenzkirche.

https://www.ma-shops.de/frank/item.php?id=3495 (https://www.ma-shops.de/frank/item.php?id=3495)

Title: Re: Need info about antique medal
Post by: Steve Moulding on January 13, 2022, 07:54:06 pm
1520, also Nurnberg. I think we're getting close.
Title: Re: Need info about antique medal
Post by: Steve Moulding on January 13, 2022, 08:54:59 pm
My final complete guess:

Nurnberg. Around 1500. Given to wealthy citizens of the city who helped finance the building of the choir (the citizens did do that, it seems). The reverse heraldry looks like that belonging to a knight, rampant lion(?) at the top above a knight's helmet(?), combined with possibly the ecclesial heraldry of the lorenzkirche below. "EK" may be the donor's initials? Or the bishop's (or bishop-equivalent). This is likely all completely wrong.

The image here is from a ~1500 book of the heraldry of the families of Nuremberg, now in the library of congress. The rampant animal looks a bit different, but many variations can be seen in the book.
https://www.loc.gov/item/49038313/ (https://www.loc.gov/item/49038313/)


Steve
Title: Re: Need info about antique medal
Post by: Ron C2 on January 13, 2022, 09:56:03 pm
struck coin initials would not be for a coin recipient.  Each die would have to have been engraved from scratch for each recipient - this would not have happened in practise.
Title: Re: Need info about antique medal
Post by: Lech Stępniewski on January 14, 2022, 05:31:36 am
Given to wealthy citizens of the city who helped finance the building of the choir (the citizens did do that, it seems).

Nice guess but why honorary medal is so worn out? It should lie all the time: first in a visible place, then in a drawer, then in a box in basement, etc.
Title: Re: Need info about antique medal
Post by: Joe Sermarini on January 14, 2022, 06:20:21 am
A lot can happen over centuries, and this specimen was as likely found in the ground than in a box or basement. Religious medals are often carried, sometimes for luck.

I don't think it has a lot of wear. Most of what is missing or weak was likely missing or weak when it was struck.
Title: Re: Need info about antique medal
Post by: PeterD on January 14, 2022, 09:07:00 am
Interesting that Nuremberg has been mentioned several times. It was there that the Krauswinckel family produced enormous amounts of Jettons or Tokens, known as 'Nuremberg Jettons'.
One maker was Egidius Krauswinkel (EK), who was active between 1570 and 1613.

The design dosen't match any of the normal designs, but perhaps this one was a 'special' for local use.
Title: Re: Need info about antique medal
Post by: Steve Moulding on January 14, 2022, 09:45:34 am
Yes! I think you have it! That's brilliant information. Here is another Jeton by him. 
https://www.identification-numismatique.com/t6423-jeton-de-nuremberg-au-maitre-d-ecole-signe-e-k (https://www.identification-numismatique.com/t6423-jeton-de-nuremberg-au-maitre-d-ecole-signe-e-k)
The decoration with crosses encircling the figure looks very similar. And there is an EK signature, with a similar looking K.

Great!

Steve
Title: Re: Need info about antique medal
Post by: Steve Moulding on January 14, 2022, 09:51:20 am
Another from CoinArchives (cached google image). Trying to get the description..,
Title: Re: Need info about antique medal
Post by: Steve Moulding on January 14, 2022, 09:54:51 am
Münz Zentrum Rheinland. 10.03.2021.
Auction 193. Lot 1289

RECHENPFENNIGE
DEUTSCHLAND.
NÜRNBERG.
Egidius Krauwinckel, Meister 1570 oder früher, +1613. Cu-26/27mm o.J. Hl. Lorenz steht in Bordüre v.v. / Behelm. Lorenz-Doppelwappen; unten E K. Neum. 32202, Mitch. - , Stalzer 185. .
s-
Title: Re: Need info about antique medal
Post by: Steve Moulding on January 14, 2022, 10:01:16 am
And finally, the Sixbid link with Estimated Price etc. This one didn't sell.
https://www.sixbid.com/en/muenz-zentrum-rheinland/8250/rechenpfennige/6817508/deutschland?term=1289 (https://www.sixbid.com/en/muenz-zentrum-rheinland/8250/rechenpfennige/6817508/deutschland?term=1289)

Thanks, especially PeterD who cracked it. This was a great hunt.

Steve
Title: Re: Need info about antique medal
Post by: Lech Stępniewski on January 14, 2022, 10:07:47 am
Well done, PeterD!  +++

So medal is not very antique but four hundred years is also a respectable age. Not precious but quite interesting.
Title: Re: Need info about antique medal
Post by: Pekka K on January 14, 2022, 10:09:11 am

And yet another, with longer description:

https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=4569305

Pekka K
Title: Re: Need info about antique medal
Post by: Jose L on January 15, 2022, 02:48:03 pm
Thank you very much for such amount of information. You all are amazing. I really appreciate it.
Title: Re: Need info about antique medal
Post by: Steve Moulding on January 15, 2022, 03:19:59 pm
You're welcome, Jose. Hope it was useful! These questions that appear out of nowhere are - to me anyway - a great chance to learn about something I would likely never otherwise look at. This one took ideas and help from knowledgeable members here and some hunting on the internet. Definitely a more rewarding conversation than someone just immediately giving you the answer. And now I kind of want to buy one of these, just to remember it all!  :laugh:

Cheers,

Steve
Title: Re: Need info about antique medal
Post by: Jose L on January 15, 2022, 08:40:59 pm
Absolutely. It's amazing and at the same time satisfying how many people can learn at the same time about a tiny piece of history. Now at least Mr. Egidius Krauwinckel is not a stranger anymore for a group of people who admire his work no matter the time that has passed.