What If You Finished?

[David Atherton]

Andrew McCabe in this thread https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=92088.0 discussed what he might possibly collect when he finishes his RR collection. I thought it would be intriguing to know what others would collect if they finished their own personal collections too, considering we all have the collecting bug!

I think it will be a long time before I come close to being satisfied with my Flavian Imperial silver collection, but ... if the collection ever was completed to my satisfaction there is an area I would love to explore. Personally, I'm interested in American Civil War era paper money, especially the currency produced by the Confederacy. I have one $5 bill from South Carolina and have never really delved into collecting any more or have tried to know anything about them. Which is odd, considering how ubiquitous Civil War currency is in all the coin shops nearby.

So, if you weren't collecting ancient coins or finished your current collection what would you collect?

[Molinari]

Good question.  If I were to finish collecting coins, which I can't see happening for a long time, I'd probably collect old books or maybe even paintings.  I love oil paintings especially, and there are so many talented young artists who sell their work for incredibly low prices when you consider the effort involved.  

Here is a print of a watercolor I picked up from a local artist at an art show nearby.  

Greg Stones, Penguin vs. Garden Gnome.

Brilliant, right?

[Carausius]

Smart money is on the gnome; they are nasty creatures.

Frankly, I have so many hobbies that if I stopped collecting ancient coins, one or more of my other hobbies would fill the void.

In the coin realm, English hammered coins are interesting to me and I have been assembling a small collection of them over the past few years. Anglo-Saxon sceattas are also interesting; but I haven't yet purchased any.

Outside of coins, I could immerse myself in one or more of the following: electric guitars and vintage amplifiers (I was a professional blues musician about 20 years ago); old British sports cars (I have restored one and would love another); vintage wristwatches; fountain pens; books about coins and history. I also collect dead people (genealogy research), which could easily turn into a full time pursuit.

[ancientdave]

I don't think I have enough hard and fast rules to ever really finish my collection. As long as there are attractive and historically relevant Roman coins available, I've got somewhere to go. I find that I seem to have a loose gathering of coins with themes & traits that I enjoy, and being something that I dig is really my only rule. Lately I've been getting more into Severan denarii, I purchased a nice group of 16 that I will begin to share soon.

I never really know for sure what I will be into tomorrow, and to me that is one of the thrills of collecting. My first love will always be 1st and 2nd century Roman Imperial bronze, a group so large and diverse that I cannot really ever fathom any sort of completion. At this point, I just want to add attractive and historically interesting coins to the collection for as long as I can, and do my part to preserve and protect these relics to be passed on after I'm gone.

[carthago]

I don't think I'll ever be "finished" unless I lose interest or need to sell the collection for some reason.

I read Andrew's post and I think I would personally continue to quest for upgrades to my coins.  I'm already beginning to do that.  To me, 75% of the fun is the challenge of the hunt and there is no reason to be finished with that unless I run out of time, money or interest.

[Robert_Brenchley]

I 'finished' (I hope it's temporary) a few years ago when illness forced me to give up work. So I collect heritage vegetable varieties instead. There's always something to collect!

[mihali84]

I don't think i could ever be completely finished with my collection.  Even if i had one example of every type i want, i think the search for that next gem would continue, budget willing of course. 

[JBF]

I would get further into Classics Illustrated comic books, not the newer ones from the 1990s, but the old ones from the 1950s.  I inherited about 16 from my dad; Iliad (Achilles dies in this version), Odyssey, Shakespeare's Julius Caesar, All's Quiet on the Western Front, Edgar Allen Poe's the Gold Bug, etc.  The newer 1990s ones have many of the same titles, but they tried to get funky modern artists to do it and that did not really work.  Condition would not really be that important as long as they were readable and not totally falling apart.

I would also like to expand my Japanese lacquerware collection, but so far what I have gotten is dependent on what the thrift store gets in

Robert,
What are heritage vegetable varieties?

[curtislclay]

The question cannot arise for me, because I desire completeness, which will never be attainable. In any larger series of ancient coins, there are a large number of varieties known in only one or a couple of specimens, and every year, it seems, new rare varieties emerge. It is impossible for any one collector to acquire every type and variety known; many of the needed coins will inevitably be in museum collections, or in the collections of other private collectors, not all of whom will die or give up collecting before you do! And even that unattainable collection of all major types and varieties would not be complete, because there would always be further minor varieties, of legend arrangement or type detail for example, that would be worth adding, plus is any ancient collection really complete before you have specimens representing every known die and die combination?

[David Atherton]

The question cannot arise for me, because I desire completeness, which will never be attainable. In any larger series of ancient coins, there are a large number of varieties known in only one or a couple of specimens, and every year, it seems, new rare varieties emerge. It is impossible for any one collector to acquire every type and variety known; many of the needed coins will inevitably be in museum collections, or in the collections of other private collectors, not all of whom will die or give up collecting before you do! And even that unattainable collection of all major types and varieties would not be complete, because there would always be further minor varieties, of legend arrangement or type detail for example, that would be worth adding, plus is any ancient collection really complete before you have specimens representing every known die and die combination?

All the above points are ones I agree with - which is why I don't think I'll ever have or start that collection of Confederate currency! Even within my limited niche there is a long way to go.

[Meepzorp]

I 'finished' (I hope it's temporary) a few years ago when illness forced me to give up work. So I collect heritage vegetable varieties instead. There's always something to collect!

Hi Rob and folks,

First, let me say that I don't think I will ever be "finished" collecting ancient coins. Just in the few areas that I specialize in alone (Magna Graecia, Augustus, medieval Italy, architectural reverses, etc.), I could be collecting for centuries (or maybe even millennia) and still not be "finished". And I don't think that I am going to live to be 10,000 years old - unless I am Yoda, who I think was 800 years old or something like that. And how do you just "turn off" that obsession or drive to collect ancient coins? This reminds me of lyrics by Neil Peart: "If I could only reach that dial inside..." and "a slave to the driving obsession...". Actually, that second quote was written about gifted people, museums, paintings, literature, etc.

My second point is intended more specifically for Rob. Why would illness force you to stop collecting ancient coins? I know that there is the financial aspect of it. But in most countries (the developed ones), that shouldn't be a major problem. In my case, the exact opposite is true. My illness actually was a catalyst for me to start collecting ancient coins. If I hadn't been stricken with a serious illness at a young age, I probably would not be collecting ancient coins. I would be "out there" in the world, and I'd probably be spending money on other things. When I was at the height of my illness, I left my house only 5-10 times a year. Even now, after more than 23 years of recovery (but not "cured"), I still leave my house only about 15 times a year. Collecting ancient coins really helped me to deal with my illness. It gave me something to live for.

If I wasn't collecting ancient coins, I'd probably be collecting antique and/or high-performance cars, especially Ford Mustangs (assuming I'd be able to drive them, because of my illness). My favorite cars of all time are third generation (1979-1993) high-performance Ford Mustangs.

Meepzorp

[v-drome]

For me, a collection is most enjoyable when it is growing, or when I am learning new things about the coins I already have.  Forum rates A+ for both these objectives.  As an omnivore trying to improve his diet, I can absolutely say that heritage vegetables are a wonderful and healthy thing to grow!

Jimi

PS.  If you are finished with a collection, to quote an old comedy called Trading Places: "SELL, MORTIMER, SELL"!

[Robert_Brenchley]

Quite simply, lack of finance. Getting two daughters through college had something to do with it, and I should have at least a little to spend in the forseeable future. But it's been really hard. I'll survive it, anyway.

To answer JBF's question, heritage vegetable varieties are old ones, usually bred before around 1950, which are no longer commercially available, and which often aren't strictly legal to sell. Restrictive laws around seed varieties have created a situation where most of the 'standard' varieties are bred to suit farmers, not gardeners. So, for instance, they all mature at once. Most gardeners would want a row of cabbages to last a couple of months, while the farmer will want to crop a whole field in one go. Many of the old varieties are now extinct, with all their genetic diversity, but some of us are keeping what we can going, and trying to get the laws relaxed a bit. People in the US have been better at preserving old varieties than us, so, for instance, I was looking for a pea called Mummy White, which was popular around 1820. As far as I can make out, it's completely vanished in Britain, but I tracked down someone in the States who had it, and he sent me half a dozen seeds. I grew these last summer, and now have a small bag which I can share, and grow out again.

[Lloyd Taylor]

... it's completely vanished in Britain, but I tracked down someone in the States who had it, and he sent me half a dozen seeds. I grew these last summer, and now have a small bag which I can share, and grow out again.

An interesting and very practical pastime, but you would be walking on the wild side in my home country. Where I come from, with its heavy emphasis on biosecurity, that's up there with smuggling a kilo of heroin as far as the authorities are concerned!

[JBF]

Having a little bit of a libertarian streak (or what is called, a _classical_ liberal), I don't understand how seeds could be illegal.  I mean, I can understand why one might not want genetically modified organisms, because GMO pollen can get into other fields, fields of people who don't want GMO bred stuff.
Robert, I think that what you are doing is neat.  There is a big seed bank in Fort Collins Colorado.  I imagine that you also probably know of the seed bank in Sptizbergen.  You are a foot soldier in the war for genetic diversity.
 
unless you don't want to be. 

John

[Lloyd Taylor]

Having a little bit of a libertarian streak (or what is called, a _classical_ liberal), I don't understand how seeds could be illegal.  I mean, I can understand why one might not want genetically modified organisms, because GMO pollen can get into other fields, fields of people who don't want GMO bred stuff.

The explanation is quite simple and involves two considerations...

Firstly, if your country is totally free of all the usual plant and animal diseases and most of the pests and infestations that afflict agricultural production elsewhere, then it makes a hell of a lot of economic sense to ban the import of any unprocessed, uregulated and/or quarantined biological material that might compromise that disease free status and the comparative economic advantage that that affords your primary production in international markets.   Sure such bans, embodied in customs law, may seem an affront to some people's sense of libertarian rights, but that is the price to be paid for maintaining an essentially disease free agricultural base.... rational, economic common sense!

On top of that purpose, there is the flora and faunal protection that is required by a continent that has been separated from the balance of the world for the last 100 million years or so. Where I live there are no native mammals and the flora is unique and often fragile. Under such circumstances, imported plants and animals pose a potentially very serious environmental threat .... environmentalism trumps some libertarian ideals - such as the freedom to import and propogate seeds and plant matter in an unchecked manner in this case! But that is the choice of the people in this case.  

Just as there are two sides to a coin, so there are two sides to the consideration of most laws ... the oft quoted affront to libertarian ideals (some might say anarchy in the extreme libertarian case) on one side and pragmatic social, environmental and economic requirements on the other.

[Lloyd Taylor]

What If You Finished? .... If I finished with ancients, then the next logical theme for me would be.... cricket memorabilia!    But with one of Bradman's baggy greens going for close on half a million dollars I'd need some serious dosh to make any inroads on a substantive collection.   

I think I'll be forced to stick with coins for a while yet.

[cicerokid]

When Andrew McCabe finishes with the RR may be a happy day for us Hellenophiles.

He has intimated that he might move into the stephanophores of Western Asia Minor.

We need researchers in this area

Great big coins, great art, lots of types and sub-types,lots of history and lots of numismatical puzzles where one , with a bit of diligence, can probably make some significant headway.

I will look forward to his large scholarly disquisitions

C'mon Andrew


As for me, I have identified what I can realistically obtain for the Athenian New Styles in my collection and in my special interest sub-areas( I have 38 with 1 coming today and 2 next week).

I am thinking about Macedonia, Seleukids, and the other staphanophores. Or anything big flashy silvery and tetradrachmy.


Cic

[Andrew McCabe]

When Andrew McCabe finishes with the RR may be a happy day for us Hellenophiles.

He has intimated that he might move into the stephanophores of Western Asia Minor.

We need researchers in this area

Great big coins, great art, lots of types and sub-types,lots of history and lots of numismatical puzzles where one , with a bit of diligence, can probably make some significant headway.

I will look forward to his large scholarly disquisitions

C'mon Andrew

Yes.  

To be honest, new style tets (Asian and Greek) are likely to grab me before Anglo Saxon pence. It's no coincidence that Charles Hersh (another Republican buff, perhaps the best of the last century) moved into Macedon after completing Rome. It's a logical next step, because it's the same historical era. That, or Spain, but Spanish coins aren't pretty, although they do have the advantage of great complexity and lots of unpublished types. Late Magna Graecia, including the bronzes, are pretty, but limited in scope as Roman currency started to dominate Italy.

I'll be complete when I can no longer find a steady supply of coins within my total annual budget. I'm still adding a few a month. As for key coins, here's a top of the head list of what I'm missing:

A portrait gold of 42 BC and/or a Julius caesar portrait in gold, possibly broken or ex-jewellery
a crappy damaged solid silver EID MAR (I once owned one but it's gone...)
Ventidius (I have all the other imperators)
A Lex Papiria sestertius of 90 BC with the legend E.L.P.
a Cornuficius in good silver (I have a plated one)
a Spanish as of Caius Cornelius Dolabella, Rex Sacrorum in 208 BC. Or of Sextus Julius (not in Cr.)
a Numitoria denarius
some better condition bronzes of the period 150-110 BC (Cr.220-290). Very tough to find as they are small and badly made.
one or two EF mark antony legionaries
a peaked helmet quinarius (P.MAE, prawn, owl)
Cr. 1/1 man-headed bull bronze

That's really about it. Yes I'm missing thousands of other varieties, but none that would be missed. I've good coverage of early denarius types (I'm missing a few great rarities and a few commoner ones). My bronzes are far fewer than RBW but they are in nice condition. I'm missing countless inconsequential common denarii, and many scarce denominations within various as-uncia runs of bronzes, but just about each bronze series is at least represented by one or two VF examples. I listed about 50 of the very rarest silver types here; http://andrewmccabe.ancients.info/Auctions.html#jump
22 of this list of 50 are in my collection and further progress will be very slow indeed (historically, I've been adding 1 per year, and that fantastic acquisition speed is likely to reduce even further as the less difficult ones get mopped up). RBW had 35 out of the 50, and if I get those listed above I'd be at 27, and probably would have picked up a few more en-route. I'd be interested to hear from other top level collectors (carthago, benito?), who collect better condition coins than I do, how many of that list of 50 they have...

This is the picture I paint when I say that practical completion is foreseeable, at least when measured against my own objectives. But I'm sure by my criteria that Curtis is already long past complete, and by his own objectives, far from complete!

Andrew

[JBF]

I understand about invasive species, and for some reason heritage varieties of tomato (in England) don't seem to match that.  I have "a little bit of a libertarian streak," I'm not a full blown libertarian ideologue    Many Americans have a healthy distrust in government, often ironically accompanied with an understanding that government is trying to help.

Now, cricket I don't understand.  For me it is one of the mysteries of the British commonwealth, of which I plan it stay ignorant.  However, God bless them for getting so excited about it on the BBC.

"Practical completion" seems to be a useful concept.  Does one "formally" close the book on area, or does one's concentration just peter out, as coins get more rare and the price tag goes up?

[cliff_marsland]

One would have to be as rich as Croesus to "finish" I collection, unless one had very fixed goals.  Even then, there's always duplicates and there's so many varieties of ancient coins, it would be impossible to really collect every one.

There's never enough in any hobby; radio shows, radio sets (well, space limitations), etc. etc.  There's always something else to get or some other sub-branch.

By the way, I love heirloom tomatoes, JBF!  I must admit, I don't understand cricket either.  I'm a big baseball fan, but I never really "got" cricket.

[JBF]

Don't get me wrong, I could classify tomatoes as an invasive species (Attack of the Killer Tomatoes), the cure being to turn it into anything else, Marinara, Salsa, etc.  (I don't like tomatoes as tomatoes)

There was an article a few years back in the Smithsonian, about how cricket used to be bigger in the United States then Baseball.  Some time in the 19th century.  Maybe... before the Civil War.  Also, heard on the radio how hand signals, developed in the Civil War got applied in Baseball.  And they say that War is good for nothing!!

I think that the military concept of "mission creep" can be applied to most hobbies.  Not that is a problem, unless the collector wants to ensure domestic tranquility or decides to invade Czechlosovakia.

While I am thinking about it, George Carlin used to have a routine about "stuff" and where to put all your "stuff."  I haven't looked for it, but I imagine a clip of it would be on youtube.  Should be research for anyone who is a collector. 

I once was arguing with a friend, telling him that he is not a hoarder, "after all it is not like you have a .... a used Q-tip collection.  He did have a used Q-tip collection.  I kid you not.  He cleaned coins of PVC gunk with acetone and Q-tips and kept the Q-tips to show other collectors how PVC flips are damaging to coins. 

[Meepzorp]

Hi JBF,

You mentioned the movie "Attack of the Killer Tomatoes", which, of course, is a "B-movie". As soon as I saw that, I started laughing. That movie is one of my cousin's favorite movies of all time. He is always talking about it. And he is always singing the theme song to that movie. The song goes like this: "It's the attack of the killer tomatoes...".

I don't like tomatoes as tomatoes either. But, being of Italian descent, I love tomato sauce.

Meepzorp

[Diederik]

Both my children having no interest of any kind in my fascination of (ancient) coins, I see myself obliged to get rid of the collection before I meet my creator, but... as I don't know when that will be, I will go on adding coins to the collection.
Completeness is an illusion and a near complete collection can never be properly put on display (immense numbers and all looking alike), so it's useless in terms of publicly showing it in any form. There would be academic interest which is only of value if the collection or some individual pieces are published in any form; so I can imagine Andrew publishing all he knows about Republican coinage and after that dispersing his coins. I personally like that idea: letting the world know what you have been doing all those years.


Frans

[SC]

I have finished collections (non-coins) twice before.  It can be a sad time.

It did however lead me to new collecting areas like ancient coins. 

To avoid it happening again I have purposefully kept my interests broad.  Late Roman bronze is my main interest but others include second century Sestertii, imitations, eastern Roman provincials, Seleucid Greek, Byzantine bronze, Arab bronze, and Chinese cash.  Maybe I will be "finished" with a few of these sub-areas, but not with ancient coinage writ large.

On another note that is a great painting Molinari.  I love it.  While I agree that gnomes have an evil streak a mile wide I notice that that penguin has a light sabre.  Rather evens the odds I think.

Shawn