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Author Topic: Terracotta Statue of Roman Soldier (perhaps Domitian?)  (Read 7017 times)

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Offline Platon

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Terracotta Statue of Roman Soldier (perhaps Domitian?)
« on: October 05, 2012, 07:14:59 pm »
Recently I purchased a statue for a good price off of the internet. The dealer is not an expert by any means but he has an honest reputation. He told me that he bought the statue off of eBay 8 years ago and that it was a part of an old german collection. He also told me that the original seller believed the item depicted the Emperor Domitian. The dealer openly stated that he had no official proof that the item was authentic, but also that the original seller seemed reputable and was selling off pieces which had been with his family for a long time. Because he had no official documentation the price I paid was very good (although still expensive at $350 including shipping). The dealer also promised that if I can provide strong reason to believe the item isn't authentic I will get a full refund.

So it seemed like a safe purchase but I do not have much experience with antiquities. I am going to bring the statue into the local museum and university to get it checked, but I am also curious to hear the opinion of this board! So I have the following questions:

a) Can anyone confirm that it is in fact Domitian? Or perhaps it is unlikely or improbable? 

b) Are there any glaring signs that the statue is not authentic? I am concerned about the numerous bright red chipped off portions (the foot, face, and elsewhere) which I know broke off in recent times but still look quite vivid for such an old piece. Another possible way to determine authenticty is purely in its artistic style. Does this statue look out of place for roman times?

c) any possible guess on when it was made? Contemporary to Domitian or perhaps one hundred or two hundred years later? Or is this almost impossible to guess?

Thanks very much for any help. If any of you believe this is a suspicious piece or an unwise investment I can still get a complete refund (he isn't shipping it for two weeks since that is when I will pay him). So any help would be great!

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: Terracotta Statue of Roman Soldier (perhaps Domitian?)
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2012, 07:35:35 pm »
Uhg, I am very sorry I tried to delete the second post with red X's instead of images but deleted both the good and bad post.  Please upload the photos again.  Sorry.
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marrk

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Re: Terracotta Statue of Roman Soldier (perhaps Domitian?)
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2012, 07:36:32 pm »
It is not Roman

Offline Platon

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Re: Terracotta Statue of Roman Soldier (perhaps Domitian?)
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2012, 07:43:23 pm »
It is not Roman

Care to expand upon this?

And the images:













Offline bpmurphy

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Re: Terracotta Statue of Roman Soldier (perhaps Domitian?)
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2012, 07:59:19 pm »
I agree. Style is wrong, manufacture is wrong etc... I'd look for a made in china sticker.

Barry Murphy

Offline Platon

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Re: Terracotta Statue of Roman Soldier (perhaps Domitian?)
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2012, 08:55:19 pm »
I do not have the experience to know any better, but is the statue really that obviously a fake?

Roughly comparable statues (that are authentic):





Rome existed for 800 years over so many different areas, I'm sure this allows for some variety in style and manufacturing.

Offline areich

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Re: Terracotta Statue of Roman Soldier (perhaps Domitian?)
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2012, 05:50:10 am »
A garden gnome looks just the same, roughly.
Andreas Reich

Offline Platon

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Re: Terracotta Statue of Roman Soldier (perhaps Domitian?)
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2012, 03:38:59 pm »
Try to show a little understanding for someone who is not experienced with such an esoteric field.

Offline Belisarius

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Re: Terracotta Statue of Roman Soldier (perhaps Domitian?)
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2012, 12:07:02 pm »
What I think areich means is that the way of depiction is fundamentally different:

On the museum (?) examples you post below, the most important thing in the artist's mind is the overall image - they assume that the viewer knows what a gladiator is wearing, and therefore concentrate on pose and only do minor detailling. On your version however, the pose has been neglected to concentrate on depicting a Roman figures' kit and clothes (he's wearing the same gear as in the film Gladiator by the way...) because that's what the modern viewer wants.

I'd also add that the way the detail has been produced very crudely is not in its favour. In most clay roman depictions, the detail is slight and well defined. One final thing to bear in mind - what is the emperor (?) meant to be doing - and why would anyone (at the time) feel the need to buy such a thing? One just doesn't depict the emperor kneeling...


Quote
Rome existed for 800 years over so many different areas, I'm sure this allows for some variety in style and manufacturing.

This is of course true, but the depiction narrows it down very much. I could not credit anything on this subject being created anywhere in the Mediteranean before the 100 BCE and nothing after 300 CE. You've then also got to consider how (apologies for using this word!) effeminate he looks (i.e. not produced in Gaul/Hispania/Britain/Germany etc) and frankly that does not leave very much margin for error.

But, there's no way to be 100% certain unless it's physically dated and that is £100+ minimum.

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Offline Platon

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Re: Terracotta Statue of Roman Soldier (perhaps Domitian?)
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2012, 03:10:56 pm »
Thank you the detailed reply! I already took photos of this to an antiquities curator and he was quite skeptical as well. I didn't follow through with purchasing the statue. I did ask the seller (who was understanding) to let me know if he ever figures out where or when the statue is from. If it is a modern forgery then the piece is worthless, but if it was from say the 19th century it would still be an interesting figure.

 

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