Lamoneda Vitellius fake transferdie,+ host + fakes that were made with it

[Din X]

1. Is the fake transfer die
2. Host who was use to make this transfer dies, the break under victory´s  leg is still sharp and good visible.
3-5 struck or pressed with the dies
6. cast  

A detail lose is visible if you compare the fake die + fakes made with it, with the host coin.

[mix_val]

Thanks for this educational post.  It's no wonder that cast fakes sometimes find their way into auctions

[glebe]

I'm afraid I find this post totally confusing.
Perhaps it would help if the duplicate images were removed, and the references to the images clarified.

Ross G.

[Lacedaemon]

Very interesting.

I think 5 and 6 are the same coin. They seem to have the same surface staining and casting bubbles.

I’m not sure if 3-6 aren’t just casts rather than products of the transfer dies. If they are from the transfer dies then the forger has severely restricted himself  on choice of flan shape - to the point of the dies being pretty redundant - he might as well be casting them.

[Din X]

I have removed the merged picture.

To get the same flan shape as the host coin is possible if you cast the planchets using a mould of the host coin and then removing all details except the flan shape, at minting the plachet would have to be positoned right between the dies.  Maybe I misunderstood the Spanish text, the fakes were described as microfusion fakes (cast) but they were linking to the fake dies too "Ver cuño falso."

http://www.denarios.org/falsas/TARRACO.htm

Fake dies can be seen here

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/who-wants-fakes.226658/

There is a picture in the thread with the fake dies showing one of these Vitellius fakes, last picture which was made with the fake dies.

[Inigo]

I have removed the merged picture.

To get the same flan shape as the host coin is possible if you cast the planchets using a mould of the host coin and then removing all details except the flan shape, at minting the plachet would have to be positoned right between the dies.  Maybe I misunderstood the Spanish text, the fakes were described as microfusion fakes (cast) but they were linking to the fake dies too "Ver cuño falso."

Please, if you are unsure of some spanish text, I can translate.
It says: "some exemplars are made by micro fusion and some others with fake dies (cuño falso) obtained by transference from an original" And then the link "see fake dies"
Two first photos of the site are from "Remoneda" (the famous artist that sells the coins as copies) by micro fusion, third photo are of the same exemplar, 4 and 5 from fake dies.

Regards

[maridvnvm]

Another I spotted recently.

Martin

[glebe]

I have removed the merged picture.

To get the same flan shape as the host coin is possible if you cast the planchets using a mould of the host coin and then removing all details except the flan shape, at minting the plachet would have to be positoned right between the dies.  Maybe I misunderstood the Spanish text, the fakes were described as microfusion fakes (cast) but they were linking to the fake dies too "Ver cuño falso."

Please, if you are unsure of some spanish text, I can translate.
It says: "some exemplars are made by micro fusion and some others with fake dies (cuño falso) obtained by transference from an original" And then the link "see fake dies"
Two first photos of the site are from "Remoneda" (the famous artist that sells the coins as copies) by micro fusion, third photo are of the same exemplar, 4 and 5 from fake dies.

Regards

This is all so second hand and confusing it's difficult to make any useful comment other than the obvious one that cast copies of varying quality are common in Spain.
How the dies come into the picture is unclear to me.

Ross G.

[Din X]

"This is all so second hand and confusing it's difficult to make any useful comment other than the obvious one that cast copies of varying quality are common in Spain.
How the dies come into the picture is unclear to me."

The host shown in this thread of the cast fakes was the host of the fake transfer dies, too.
This confused me, too!
This is how they are linked together!
I have posted a fake made with the dies, too. (picture only with the obverse from my last post)

The transfer die looks 100% identical to the host of the cast fake.
No details have been recutted into the dies like border dots which makes it easy to detect them because the can´t vary centering and flanshape because than the fake made with the dies would miss the border dots which should be there with different centering or flan shape.

[carthago]

Is it just me, or do those dies not really look like dies?  They appear to have positive relief.  The shadows suggest that they are on top of the medal cylinders, not part of them.

I've been reading this post for the past few days, and like Ross, am confused.  

[PeterD]

The OP's pictures are of identical coins with identical flan shapes. They are surely cast fakes (except perhaps one host). Period.

Why would anyone go to the trouble of creating transfer dies, striking coins with them and then altering the flans to make them look identical. That would mark them out as fakes. Whether the dies illustrated are real or not (and they do look phoney), they have nothing to do with the fakes shown.

[Martin B4]

Fake Reports submitted
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/fakes/displayimage.php?pos=-19103
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/fakes/displayimage.php?pos=-19104