Probus — Victoriae Avg

[vrtsprb]

One of the recently acquired Holy Grails of a Probus collector. I've been looking for one of those for... a long time.

RIC 799; Alföldi type 88, n° 4; Siscia. Bust type G, (E1). Denomination: Antoninianus.

OBV.: IMP C M AVR PROBVS P F AVG

Radiate, helmeted, cuirassed bust left, holding spear and shield.
Pseudo-Corinthian helmet.
Pointed spear. Shield bordered with rivets and studded.
Lorica hamata.

REV.: VICTORIAE AVG

Two Victories standing face to face, clasping hands before palm-tree.

Mintmark: // KAQ  


G/<

[Joe Sermarini]

Wow, a great example too.

[quadrans]

Huhh,

Great coin with great condition.

Congratulation. 

My example are Alföldi type 88 and No 1, ( the avers legend are: IMP C M AVR PROBVS P AVG)
In my Probus Siscia Gallery :

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-77317

But not the same good condition 

Regards
 Q.

[SEstiot]

To Vrtsprb (acronym for Virtus Probi ?)
Very nice coin!, in a perfect state of conservation and exceptionally rare: as I know 15 examples of this coin (same bust on the obverse and same reverse VICTORIAE AVG //KAQ) with the titulature IMP C M AVR PROBVS P AVG, I have registered only 2 coins similar to yours, i.e. with the titulature IMP C M AVR PROBVS P F AVG. I would be very interested in knowing its weight and axis, if possible.
All the best,
S. Estiot

[SEstiot]

PS. A few details to add.
I have checked more carefully my archive, and correct immediately what I said supra: looking more carefully to one of the 2 examples similar to yours (a coin in Madrid in a very bad state of conservation), I think the exergue is // KAP (which makes an unicum of this coin!). The only remaining coin similar to yours (//KAQ) comes from the sale Emporium 66, 17-18/11/2011, 504, apparently from other dies (but the Emporium picture is not good...).
Your coin shares its reverse dies with 4 coins IMP C M AVR PROBVS P AVG.
Last info : Alföldi 88, 4 gives the reference "Gn, Naville", I never had the opportunity to get across these coins : the Gnecchi coll. is in Rome, Museo Nazionale, and very hard to see, Naville would refer to Ars Classica catalogues and I didn't find which one.
S. Estiot

[SEstiot]

PPS. Hello Grzegorz! I just realized, reading some posts, that Vrtsprb is your alias (there are a few weeks I didn't look at FAC discussions)...

[Barnaba6]

Dear Grzegorz,

Congratulations once again for obtaining this great and rare coin in a truly splendid condition!

I have 4 other Alfoldi 88.4 specimens in my Probus database, one - as you know - being in my collection (from Rauch auction 96 lot 504):

1. My specimen (Rauch auction 96 lot 504):

 https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=6197&pos=271

2. S. Hilande collection (you need to scroll down the page a bit in order to get to the Victoriae Avg)

http://virtvsprobi.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2011-01-01T19:21:00%2B01:00&max-results=7&start=21&by-date=false

3. Auction Emporium 66/504 (already cited by Sylviane Estiot supra)
https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=1143620

4.Rauch summer auction 2013 lot 931
https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=1679669

Regards,

Barnaba

[SEstiot]

Thank so much to Barnaba for these additions to the Alf. 88, 4 entry !

More about Alföldi 88 : What could be added is that Alföldi 88 quotes VICTORIAE AVG coins, two Victories clasping hands in front of a palm-tree, and the titulature IMP C M AVR PROBVS P AVG with the exergues //KAP (Alf. 88,1), //KAT (Alf. 88, 2, an unicum from Budapest, confirmed as I saw it there), //KAQ (Alf. 88, 3) and with the titulature IMP C M AVR PROBVS P F AVG with the exergue //KAQ (Alf. 88, 4), but there are coins IMP C M AVR PROBVS P AVG with the exergue //KAS too, which Alföldi didn't know (Alf. 88, -) : 2 coins registered.
The case of the Madrid coin mentioned above IMP C M AVR PROBVS P F AVG, and //KAP has to be confirmed (Alf. 88, -) as the Madrid coin is in a very bad state which makes the reverse die comparison with the coins  IMP C M AVR PROBVS P AVG //KAP impossible.
S. Estiot

[vrtsprb]

To Vrtsprb (acronym for Virtus Probi ?)
Very nice coin!, in a perfect state of conservation and exceptionally rare: as I know 15 examples of this coin (same bust on the obverse and same reverse VICTORIAE AVG //KAQ) with the titulature IMP C M AVR PROBVS P AVG, I have registered only 2 coins similar to yours, i.e. with the titulature IMP C M AVR PROBVS P F AVG. I would be very interested in knowing its weight and axis, if possible.

Dear Sylviane,

Yes, you are correct — after a ten year absence here at FAC my previous "virtus probi" account has vanished, yet I wanted to make a distinction between my previous pronouncements in the archives and my "new" presence, hence this abbreviated form.

Thank you for your notes. I will e-mail the weight and axis ASAP. I'm ashamed to say that I'm perhaps a somewhat ambitious collector, but not a very good one — I've largely neglected noting axis & diameter of coins. Until now. Barnaba has been a very good influence on how to be a better collector! After viewing his collection here on FAC, I've also started adding axis & diameter on probvs.net  Which is now, albeit too slowly, undergoing a general overhaul and revision.


My best regards as always,

G/<

[vrtsprb]

Thank you everyone. More of a response than I bargained for, and with interesting additional information!


G/<

[maridvnvm]

G/<,
It's just the attention that should be due an outstanding example of a rare coin.
Martin

[vrtsprb]

It's just the attention that should be due an outstanding example of a rare coin.

I've also enjoyed the attention paid to your interesting Lugdunum piece and will be sure to add the info to the appropriate page.

G/<

P.S. Amusingly, I found a note from you on another forum about needing to point out my typo on RIC 804 page.
I fixed it, and no longer need a reminder!

[Teutoburgium]

It seems that this variant is not so rare - another Alf 88/4 specimen was sold at ebay 2014/3/8 251468625419

Teutoburgium

[quadrans]

Hi Teutoburgium,

 May be you right, but this coin not only rare,   but exceptionally nicely preserved too...

 Regards
 Q.

[Barnaba6]

It seems that this variant is not so rare - another Alf 88/4 specimen was sold at ebay 2014/3/8 251468625419

Well, I guess everybody has his or her own definition of "rare". You have just cited the 6th known specimen of this type on the market. So if we add the 2 specimens cited by Alfloldi we currently have only 8 specimens registered of Alfoldi 88/4. To me that is still a very small number and I still consider this type as very rare. To be precise, I consider any coin which is known in less than 10 specimens as very rare and rare if it is known in 10-20 specimens.  Apparently your criteria of rarity are much more strict:)

[vrtsprb]

[...] To be precise, I consider any coin which is known in less than 10 specimens as very rare and rare if it is known in 10-20 specimens. [...]

If I see another unknown one of these within a year, I will be happy to call mine just "scarce".


G/<