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Author Topic: Baktrian and indo greek references some guidance  (Read 4609 times)

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Offline apgrassman

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Baktrian and indo greek references some guidance
« on: July 18, 2015, 01:30:28 pm »
Dear All

Having recently become interested in both Bactrian and indo Greek coinage.  I wondered which are the best and most affordable references for these two areas.  I have a few of the books by Holt and Kribb, but have struggled to find books with even a few pictures of the coins themselves.  Obviously there is the world wide web, but personally I don't think you can beat a good book.

Although I am quite happy to buy the book before the coins themselves SNG ANS part 9 at over £1000 is far beyond my budget.

Is Monnaies Gréco-Bactriennes et Indo-Grecques, Catalogue Raisonné the best available for Bactrian apart from the SNG or are there others as good

Is Senior 1975 - 1976 9 volumes set the best for the indo Greek coinage.

I have seen the hoover book would this be a good buy, although there seems to be some debate about the bilingual characters given within

Hopefully someone can give me a little guidance about these references.

Thanks

apgrassman

Offline Molinari

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Re: Baktrian and indo greek references some guidance
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2015, 02:21:14 pm »
Michael Mitchiner's Indo-Greek and Indo-Scythian Coinage (1975) is what I always considered the standard for most collectors.  But I'm not a collector of these coins, so I might be far off base.

Offline Enodia

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Re: Baktrian and indo greek references some guidance
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2015, 04:36:24 pm »
But I'm not a collector of these coins, so I might be far off base.

nor i, but i do have a small book (about 40 pages) called The Coin Types of the Indo-Greek Kings (A.K Narian - 1967).
it seems to be an extensive listing, but unfortunately no plates. however it can be had cheaply, so it may have some value. i think i paid $3 for mine (which is why i bought it).

not sure if this is of any real help, but it might be a start.

~ Peter

Offline n.igma

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Re: Baktrian and indo greek references some guidance
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2015, 06:08:43 pm »
Handbook of Greek Coins 12: Handbook of Coins of Baktria and Ancient India
..... $65 with hundreds of coin pictures. The best low cost publication on the Baktrian series by a country mile. If this doesn't meet your needs then your into slightly more expensive publications such as ANS SNG 9 Graeco-Bactrian and Indo -Greek Coins - highly recommended- more so if you're into the various specific emissions and mint controls of each type.

... SNG ANS part 9 at over £1000 is far beyond my budget.
By the way the price you quote for ANS SNG 9 is at least an order of magnitude higher than the going rate at reputable sellers, so I suggest you look beyond the extortionist rip-off-merchant that quoted you this price. I bought my copy new a couple of years ago for around $120.

Hoover, Oliver D. Handbook of Coins of Baktria and Ancient India, Including Sogdiana, Margiana, Areia, and the Indo-Greek, Indo-Skythian, and Native Indian States South of the Hindu Kush, Fifth Century BC to First Century AD [The Handbook of Greek Coinage Series, Volume 12]. 2013. lxxxiv and 389 numbered pp. Hardbound.

........The latest published volume in the series is Handbook of Coins of Baktria and Ancient India, Including Sogdiana, Margiana, Areia, and the Indo-Greek, Indo-Skythian, and Native Indian States South of the Hindu Kush, Fifth Century Centuries BC to First Century AD (Volume 12 in the series). Beginning with the Kingdom of Baktria, the catalog covers all the Graeco-Bacrian and Indo-Greek kings. This volume includes the Indo-Skythian rulers and satraps, as well as the local coinages of the region. The Indian coinages south of the Hindu Kush are also included. While not obviously Greek coinage, these issues were struck in the context of their Greek neighbors and will add further evidence to the complex monetary systems of the region.

I have seen the hoover book would this be a good buy, although there seems to be some debate about the bilingual characters given within

Not sure where you got this piece of misinformation, although it is a fact that "debate" (I prefer uncertainty) of some form or other surrounds just about all Baktrian coins due to the lack of historical documentary records/evidence. Hoover in this volume notes many of the points of recent debate and contention. It is the most up to date of all publications on the Bactrian series.  If you wait until the "debate" on whatever aspect concerns you is resolved you'll never buy a book or become engaged in the debate.... debate is part of learning and numismatic scholarship and understanding is continually evolving!
All historical inquiry is contingent and provisional, and our own prejudices will in due course come under scrutiny by our successors.

Offline n.igma

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Re: Baktrian and indo greek references some guidance
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2015, 06:55:26 pm »
Obviously there is the world wide web, but personally I don't think you can beat a good book.

Nevertheless the Coin India Gallery is a fine place to start with plenty of pictures and some nice coin specific notes plus quite a few exotic rarities  ...

http://coinindia.com/home.html

Bactrian Index... http://coinindia.com/index-greek.html

Publication References.... http://coinindia.com/references.html   ... all the other books you may want!

All historical inquiry is contingent and provisional, and our own prejudices will in due course come under scrutiny by our successors.

Offline bpmurphy

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Re: Baktrian and indo greek references some guidance
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2015, 01:18:17 am »
SNG ANS 9 should not be over $100. I've sold 4 copies in the last year all for $85 or less.

Barry Murphy

Offline n.igma

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Re: Baktrian and indo greek references some guidance
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2015, 01:29:44 am »
SNG ANS 9 should not be over $100. I've sold 4 copies in the last year all for $85 or less.

Barry Murphy

Correct.... mine was bought in Australia and the price I quoted is my recall of that in Australian dollars (one AU$ buys ca. US$0.70)
All historical inquiry is contingent and provisional, and our own prejudices will in due course come under scrutiny by our successors.

Offline apgrassman

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Re: Baktrian and indo greek references some guidance
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2015, 05:08:39 am »

Many thanks to you all for your guidance and for taking the time to write, as always much appreciated, by a complete beginner to this area of numismatics.

regards

apgrassman

Offline apgrassman

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Re: Baktrian and indo greek references some guidance
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2015, 05:54:54 am »

SNG ANS 9 should not be over $100. I've sold 4 copies in the last year all for $85 or less.

Barry Murphy



Just as an aside I would be very happy to receive any information (please PM) where I can buy a copy of the above for less than $100.

Thanks again

apgrassman

Offline djmacdo

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Re: Baktrian and indo greek references some guidance
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2015, 07:51:19 am »
Michael Mitchiner's Indo-Greek and Indo-Scythian Coinage (1975) is somewhat out of date and his attribution to mints is based on little or no information.   Monnaies Gréco-Bactriennes et Indo-Grecques, Catalogue Raisonné is more systematic and up to date.  It is quite easy to use and for scholarly purposes much to be preferred.

Offline RL

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Re: Baktrian and indo greek references some guidance
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2018, 10:54:27 pm »
Sorry to drag an old post out of the depths but I was wondering if the views expressed above still reflect the state of play in terms of the best and most easily accessible books for this type of coinage?

Offline djmacdo

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Re: Baktrian and indo greek references some guidance
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2018, 08:10:00 am »
Still valid.

Offline RL

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Re: Baktrian and indo greek references some guidance
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2018, 07:43:30 pm »
Thank you

Offline Kevin D

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Re: Baktrian and indo greek references some guidance
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2018, 11:42:16 am »
I also like the Hoover Handbook. For me the history of the areas, rulers, and coinages are better than the coin listings themselves (and they are good as well).

I think the grossly overpriced book sellers might go looking to buy...when they get an order...

Offline Anaximander

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Re: Baktrian and indo greek references some guidance
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2020, 06:30:36 pm »
I just finished cataloging my Baktrian coins and uploading to my Members Gallery. In doing so, I used the mainstream references often cited in this thread:
Hoover's Handbook of Greek Coins (vol.12) was most helpful, as were Bopearachchi's Catalogue Raisonnee, the SNG ANS volume 9, and Mitchiner's Indo-Greek and Indo-Scythian Coinage (MIG).  The Smithsonian Collection (authored by Bopearachchi) was superfluous. 

I chanced a look at a work by Holt cited by n.igma and saw another link to a bibliography.  No surprises here, really, but it's a good concise and critical look at the 'state of play' as of 2016. 

https://www.academia.edu/29403107/Graeco-Bactrian_and_Indo-Greek_Coins_A_Bibliography_of_the_Numismatics_of_the_Hellenistic_Far_East

Anaximander

Offline Anaximander

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New online reference? Bactrian and Indo-Greek Coinage (BIGR)
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2022, 10:16:00 am »
While looking up some references for Early (pre-Seleukid) coinage of Baktria, I found an obscure Nomisma link to an online site for Bactrian and Indo-Greek Coinage.   

While it lacks a flashy splash screen like PELLA or SCO, this is clearly a work-in-progress for a multi-collection online reference that would arguably represent a huge leap in Baktrian numismatics.  Imagine having many major collections linked through one search engine! 

Reality check: Presently, there are just 468 records, and most lack images.  So far, I haven't succeeded in finding records for the earliest, Athenian-imitation coinage in Baktria, that used by the early Greek settlers in Baktria, but more mainstream issues are likely to be better populated.

Offline Altamura

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Offline Kevin D

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Re: Baktrian and indo greek references some guidance
« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2022, 05:12:45 pm »
https://numismatics.org/store/ns40/

'Money and Power in Hellenistic Bactria' was published in 2020 and can be added to the above cited references. There have been a few new dies discovered since publication, but the work done by the author up to the publication cut-off date seems quite thorough. See link above for info on the book and what it covers.

Offline n.igma

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Re: New online reference? Bactrian and Indo-Greek Coinage (BIGR)
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2022, 12:23:28 am »
So far, I haven't succeeded in finding records for the earliest, Athenian-imitation coinage in Baktria, that used by the early Greek settlers in Baktria, but more mainstream issues are likely to be better populated.


Birds of Feather, Brothers in Arms: The Coinage of Andragoras and Sophytes. ...  https://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=Taylor%20Birds

https://www.academia.edu/44958576/Birds_of_Feather_Brothers_in_Arms_The_Coinage_of_Andragoras_and_Sophytes  and https://zenodo.org/record/4470271#.YwMEbfFBwQw

Analysis of the owl, eagle and cockerel coinage previously attributed to Sophytes indicates that it is most probably associated with that of Andragoras, the Seleucid satrap of Parthia who led the secession of the province from the Seleucid realm. The numismatic evidence suggests that following the death of Andragoras, the leadership of Parthia was assumed briefly by Sophytes before the province was completely overrun by the nomadic Parni around 238 BC. This coinage has a number of unusual characteristics. It was struck across eleven typological series in the period c. 250-238 BC. It is composed of a comprehensive range of silver denominations, including uniquely in the Hellenistic east, the didrachm. Nominally struck on a reduced Attic weight standard, defined by a tetradrachm of about 16.8 grams, each smaller denomination was weight adjusted to include a progressively increasing fiduciary component of value. These characteristics are indicative of a local coinage, motivated by political expediency in meeting a monetary necessity arising from Seleucid neglect.
All historical inquiry is contingent and provisional, and our own prejudices will in due course come under scrutiny by our successors.

Offline Anaximander

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BIGR is bigger (Baktrian and Indo Greek Rulers)
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2022, 07:46:05 am »
More on BIGR...

The site has grown, if only a little, with a proper face-page and introductory remarks. I like that BIGR uses Kharoṣṭhī Unicode characters in legends and control marks, and even refers users to an available font to download.

Searchable references include Bopearachchi, Mitchener (MIG?), and Selecucid Coins. Reasonable, but notably lacking SNG ANS Vol. 9 and Hoover's HGC Vol. 12.
You can even search by monogram (ex: https://numismatics.org/bigr/symbol/monogram.bop.102)

This dataset has a really nice feature: subtypes and duplicates (called "objects") are a subset to each record. So the 531 records represent many more coins (4,008 to be precise, looking at their Contributors page).  A gold stater of Diodotus I or II (Bop. 5A) is one record, and it has four subtypes for the various control marks, including two blank placeholders for subtypes where examples are currently lacking) and 15 objects from three contributing collections (ANS, BnF, Ashmolean).

There is even a quantitative analysis of the subtypes, with average weight, diameter, and axis.  I immediately see issues with this calculation, though, as a fragmental piece and a silver tetradrachm are included in the population, skewing results.  A little more work on that feature is needed.
 
See this article:  https://coinsweekly.com/new-online-research-tool-for-bactrian-indo-greek-coinage/

Online Joe Sermarini

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Re: Baktrian and indo greek references some guidance
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2022, 02:04:27 pm »
Excellent resource. I added a BIGR page to NumisWiki.
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