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Author Topic: Vercingetorix Medallion - Recognized?  (Read 2782 times)

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Offline Tiathena

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Vercingetorix Medallion - Recognized?
« on: March 28, 2007, 07:55:42 pm »
   
        Avete omnes,
 
  I’m really not sure where best to post, share and inquire about this medallion, but this seems to me the most sensible.
 
  I just purchased this little (very-little) medallion a couple of weeks ago and which just arrived today.
  I don’t know much of anything which isn’t ‘obvious’ about it, but I do think it’s pretty nifty…
  I think I’ll place it on the base of my Julius Caesar bust here – a little votive of sorts.  :)
 
  If anyone might recognize this medallion and have any additional information about it, I’ll be most grateful to learn of it.
  I’ve no idea as to origin, maker or purpose, or – to be sure – even the date.
 
  It does seem to be based on the seven meter tall Memorial statute honoring the Gallic chieftain, erected by Napoleon III in 1865, work of the French sculptor Aimé Millet, in Alise-Sainte-Reine – ( Alesia ).
  Beyond this – I know nothing more than can be measured and seen of the medallion itself – which, in hand, really is quite a charming little piece.
 


 


Obv: Vercingetorix standing facing, right leg thrust slightly forward, right foot on a rock; left arm crossed over body, hand resting on hilt of inverted sword: VERCINGETORIX ALESIA 1865
Rev: Curved branch bearing fourteen leaves and four blossoms.

  Metal: Silver.
  Size: 13.41 mm.
  Weight: (? – maybe ca. 1.5 grm.)
 

    If anyone does have any knowledge about or additional information regarding this medallion, I will be very appreciative…
  Of course too, any thoughts or comments warmly welcomed as always.
 
    Best,
    Tia
   
Facilius per partes in cognitionem totius adducimur.  ~ Seneca
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Offline Johnny

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Re: Vercingetorix Medallion - Recognized?
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2007, 08:55:28 pm »
Having been appointed governor of the Roman province of Gallia Narbonensis (modern Provence) in 58 BC, Julius Caesar proceeded to conquer the Gallic tribes beyond over the next few years, maintaining control through a careful divide and rule strategy. He made use of the factionalism among the Gallic elites, favouring certain noblemen over others with political support and Roman luxuries such as wine. Attempts at revolt, such as that of Ambiorix in 54 BC, had secured only local support, but Vercingetorix, whose father, Celtillus, had been put to death by his own countrymen for seeking kingship over all of Gaul, managed to unify the Gallic tribes against the Romans and adopted more modern styles of warfare.

The revolt that Vercingetorix came to lead began in early 52 BC while Caesar was raising troops in Cisalpine Gaul. Believing that Caesar would be distracted by the turmoil in Rome following the death of Clodius, the Carnutes, under Cotuatus and Conetodunus, made the first move, slaughtering the Romans who had settled in their territory.

Vercingetorix, a young nobleman of the Arvernian city of Gergovia, roused his dependents to join the revolt, but he and his followers were expelled by the nobles of the city, including his own uncle Gobanito, who thought opposing Caesar too great a risk. Undeterred, Vercingetorix raised an army of the poor, took Gergovia and was hailed as king. He made alliances with other tribes, and having been unanimously given supreme command, imposed his authority through harsh discipline and the taking of hostages. He adopted the policy of retreating to natural fortifications, and undertook an early example of a scorched earth strategy by burning towns to prevent the Roman legions from living off the land.

Caesar and his chief lieutenant Titus Labienus lost the initial minor engagements, but captured the tribal capital at Avaricum (Bourges), killing the entire population of 40,000. The next major battle at Gergovia resulted in a victory for Vercingetorix because Caesar's men charged beyond their initial objective and approached the heavily fortified rampart, suffering major losses. Caesar's initial plan called for besieging the city and starving out the defenders. When Vercingetorix thought Caesar was in retreat (which he did not intend because it might have ruined his career) he moved to catch Caesar's army stretched out as they maneuvered. In their haste to rout the Romans, the Gallic forces suffered heavy casualties, with many noblemen perishing in the fighting. Due to these losses he had to retreat and moved to another stronghold, Alesia.

 
Gold stater of Vercingetorix, Cabinet des MédaillesIn the Battle of Alesia, however, Caesar was more patient and built a fortification around the city; however, because he himself was surrounded by the rest of Gaul, and Vercingetorix had summoned his Gallic allies to attack the besieging Romans, Caesar built another outer fortification against the expected relief armies (resulting in a doughnut-shaped fortification). The relief came in insufficient numbers: an estimated 100,000 soldiers (although Caesar claimed there were 250,000). Vercingetorix, the tactical leader, was cut off from them on the inside, and without his guidance the attacks were initially unsuccessful. However, the attacks did reveal a weak point in the fortifications and the combined forces on the inside and the outside almost made a breakthrough. Only when Caesar personally led the last reserves into battle did he finally manage to prevail. This was a very decisive battle in the creation of the Roman empire.

According to legend Vercingetorix surrendered in magnificent fashion, allegedly riding his horse out of Alesia and around Caesar's camp before throwing his arms at Caesar's feet, stripping himself of his armor and kneeling to Caesar with a flourish.[1] Caesar provides a first-hand contradiction of this account, describing Vercingetorix's surrender much more modestly.[2] He was imprisoned in the Tullianum in Rome for five years, before being publicly displayed in Caesar's triumph in 46 BC. He was executed after the triumph, likely by strangulation or beheading.

Vercingetorix's birthdate is a subject of controversy. He may have been as young as 17 when he unified the Gauls against Julius Caesar's invading legions.[citation needed]


Offline Johnny

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Re: Vercingetorix Medallion - Recognized?
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2007, 08:58:17 pm »
as far as the medallion goes ??  I don't have a clue as to where, or how old it is.  I probably is a modern commemorative medallion issued at Vercingetorix anniversary

the map shows the fortification they found during the Napoleon excavation and again in 1906 ish

Offline Tiathena

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Re: Vercingetorix Medallion - Recognized?
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2007, 09:26:12 pm »
 
        Hi Johnny,
 
  Thanks for posting the info – a nice text to append to the Thread in any event.
  I am well-enough aware of who Vercingetorix was.
  Honestly, I’m just about to finish reading a stack of books here I acquired all related to Caesar’s Civil Wars – I’m with the 2nd to last I intend to read for some while – namely, Appian’s account.
  By any measure, I think we have to say Vercingetorix was an impressive man indeed.  I myself, somewhat surprised by, also feel a bit badly about his end.  I can only appreciate Caesar’s sentence for what it was in that Roman sense – ‘a just end’ to a barbarian who cost himself and Rome so much.
 
  Yes, it really is this medallion that I’m left wondering over.
  The usual you know – who (designed & made it)? what (purpose)? Where (France? England? The US? - ?) when?
 
  The thought flashed through my mind too, perhaps commemorative (anniversary type) – but I suppose we must know when it was produced.
  Else, we can reflect only on the dates, 52-46 BC. so I think most-probably not.
  ..As I say though – for those questions I am without a clue…
 
    Best, & gratefully –
    Tia
 
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Offline Johnny

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Re: Vercingetorix Medallion - Recognized?
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2007, 09:28:48 pm »
I have just gone through all my contact sites for modern coins and commerative artifacts,  nothing .

I'll keep looking

 Tia ,  Can you zoom in to the small inscription to the left of the sword ?  it looks like a manufacturer logo.

Offline Tiathena

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Re: Vercingetorix Medallion - Recognized?
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2007, 10:02:15 pm »
 
      Hi Johnny,
 
  Thank you, that’s very kind of you.
 
  My camera for sure can’t zoom close enough to get a shot of it clearly and I can only barely manage to ‘see’ it as an ‘anything’ under a pretty good magnifying glass here.
  To be honest, I can’t tell with any certainty whether it’s initials or some sort of design.
  I think – squinting terribly under a bright light ;) – I can perhaps make out what looks like a CW or possibly – GW - ?
  ..If so – it is written such as if the ‘W’ were a sub-script – with the top of the W at about the middle of the C or G (though both letters being roughly the same size).
  I just can’t swear that it is so…
 
   I appreciate your replies & your efforts to help track this down.
  I don’t even have a clue where to look.
 
   Best regards,
   Tia
 
  e.g. ->  CW  /  GW
 
   ( Though with the W being very-slightly higher up ).
      Does this make any sense to you?
 
 
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Offline Johnny

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Re: Vercingetorix Medallion - Recognized?
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2007, 05:21:28 pm »
Actually it does make sense  
 that CW or GW is a mark that reflect the silversmith , or the company that made it, It's quite accurate.
 
now there was a silversmith called Charles Whiting around the turn of the century  1900ish,  but his mark was just the initial in line CW  he never had one higher or lower,  CW was also registered by a company and  used 1899 1914 out of england, ...

HUMMMM a quest ,

I'll get back to you in a bit

Manzikert

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Re: Vercingetorix Medallion - Recognized?
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2007, 05:24:43 pm »
Hi Tia

If you look at these pages from Wikipedia
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Statue_Vercingetorix_Alesia.JPG
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vercingetorix
you will see that the statue of Vercingetorix was erected in 1865 (the date on the medallion), so I would guess that it was issued as a souvenir of the erection or a souvenir for visitors to the statue at a later date, and would have been produced in France. The maker's monogram is actually JB.

Best wishes

Alan

Offline Tiathena

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Re: Vercingetorix Medallion - Recognized?
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2007, 08:28:57 pm »
 
       Ave Johnny!
 
  Thanks much for that & your kind help!
  Yes, I’ve of course visited Wikipedia…  Always one of the proverbial train-stops when else without-a-clue.
  I mentioned the date in my initial post – but, just a souvenir medallion hadn’t even crossed my mind and seems to make perfect sense.
  Perhaps manufactured locally and sold on or near the site (in Alise-Sainte-Reine) – that makes more sense than anything to me.  Date still unknown, but – lol  :laugh: – 'modern' is certainly sufficient.
 
   “The maker's monogram is actually JB.

   J.B - ?  ..as in - ?
  Might you have any further information regarding the designer / creator?

    Most gratefully,
    Tia
 
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Offline Johnny

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Re: Vercingetorix Medallion - Recognized?
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2007, 08:46:15 pm »
still working on it...found several JB monograms , but they never worked on medallions. Usually silver pitchers and flatware..........I'll figure it out


Offline frederic

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Re: Vercingetorix Medallion - Recognized?
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2007, 04:47:17 pm »
Hi, I found the same medaillions sold on a french site of medaillions, but there are not origin. On reverse the style of letter is end 1900 century.
[LINK REMOVED BY ADMIN]

best regards

fredric

Offline Johnny

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Re: Vercingetorix Medallion - Recognized?
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2007, 05:27:34 pm »
Hi Tia 

 I just spent some time online with several individuals, and more than likely the coin  was created in 1865 to commemorate the opening of the " musee Alesia " the Alesia museum in Alise-Sainte-Reine France.  This museum was opened by Napoleon III in 1865 following the excavations of the site of Vercingetorix last battle.. 

As far as the creator goes ???  nothing , but it's a start


Offline Tiathena

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Re: Vercingetorix Medallion - Recognized?
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2007, 06:23:02 pm »
 
     Many thanks Fredric – nice find and very kind of you to point it out to me here.
  Perhaps in part at-least the photo of this other one, and in part the reverse design, makes me suspect this other is perhaps older than mine.  In any event, the reverse designs are completely different.
  It’s too bad the French seller doesn’t provide any information about the medallion – perhaps he also just doesn’t know.
 
  My thanks to you again also, Johnny.
 
  That is an interesting idea, whether it be so or not.
  I would, at the moment, be more inclined to think it of this other which Fredric has found – mine just ‘looks & feels’ too new to date to mid-or late 19th century; not that I know, to be sure – it’s just a feeling, an impression.
  It could well be a newer ‘issue’ of the same, for the same reason & purpose; just a simple little tourists’ souvenir sold on site.
   So far, that reasoning makes most sense at-least.
 
  My thanks again to both …
  I much appreciate the help.

   Best,
   Tia
   
Facilius per partes in cognitionem totius adducimur.  ~ Seneca
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