Classical Numismatics Discussion
  Welcome Guest. Please login or register. All Items Purchased From Forum Ancient Coins Are Guaranteed Authentic For Eternity!!! Explore Our Website And Find Joy In The History, Numismatics, Art, Mythology, And Geography Of Coins!!! Expert Authentication - Accurate Descriptions - Reasonable Prices - Coins From Under $10 To Museum Quality Rarities Welcome Guest. Please login or register. Internet challenged? We Are Happy To Take Your Order Over The Phone 252-646-1958 Explore Our Website And Find Joy In The History, Numismatics, Art, Mythology, And Geography Of Coins!!! Support Our Efforts To Serve The Classical Numismatics Community - Shop At Forum Ancient Coins

New & Reduced


Author Topic: Trajan AE30 of Cyrenaica and Crete, Cyrene  (Read 2113 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline peterpil19

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1059
    • Ancient Coin Traders
Trajan AE30 of Cyrenaica and Crete, Cyrene
« on: November 25, 2017, 09:51:30 pm »
Greetings,

I acquired this provincial coin of Trajan recently, chiefly for the stylistic portrait of Zeus-Ammon on the reverse.

Most references attribute it to Cappadocia, Caesarea.  However the vendor and others attribute this coin to Cyrene. RPC III online also shows it as Cyrene. Does anyone know where this reattribution came from and why?

Peter


Cyrenaica and Crete; AE30; Brass; struck 103-111 AD; Obverse: AYTOKP KAIC NEP TPAIANOC CEB ΓΕΡΜ ΔΑΚ, Head of Trajan right, laureate; drapery on neck; Reverse: ΔΗΜΑΡΧ ΕΞ YΠΑΤ Ε, Head of Zeus-Ammon right, bearded and horned; 30.12mm, 20.64g, 6h; References: Sydenham Caesarea 232; RPC III 5; SNG Copenhagen 217; BMC Galatia [Caesarea] p. 59, 112-115; Asolati 176B; Lindgren I 1703 var. (ΕΞ YΠΑΤ O); Rec Gen -; SNG ANS-; SNG Kikpe -; SNG Soutzos -; SGICV -

Offline RL

  • Consul
  • ***
  • Posts: 153
Re: Trajan AE30 of Cyrenaica and Crete, Cyrene
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2017, 11:20:50 pm »
My apologies for the fluff comment - I know nothing about your question, but wow, that is a fantastic coin! I'm blown away by the detail (and always have had a soft spot for depictions of Zeus-Ammon!)

Online Meepzorp

  • IMPERATOR
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 5143
    • Meepzorp's Ancient Coins
Re: Trajan AE30 of Cyrenaica and Crete, Cyrene
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2017, 11:58:52 pm »
Hi pp19,

I agree with RL. That is a fantastic portrait of Zeus-Ammon.

Like RL, I don't know anything about your coin. However, the portrait of Zeus-Ammon on the reverse of your coin reminds me of a portrait of him on the obverse of one of my Roman Republic/Imperatorial coins, which was also minted in Cyrene.

Here is my coin (scroll down, second coin):

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/meepzorp/rr_pt43.htm

Maybe that is why your coin is attributed to Cyrene in some references?

By the way, the attribution of coins sometimes changes over the decades. For example, I have a coin that was previously attributed to Commagene. It is listed in BMC under Galatia. It is now believed that it was minted in Cyprus.

Here is the coin (scroll down, second coin):

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/meepzorp/rp_cyprus.htm

Meepzorp

Offline okidoki

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 4272
    • https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/index.php?cat=37270
Re: Trajan AE30 of Cyrenaica and Crete, Cyrene
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2017, 06:09:30 am »
Dear Peter,

an absolute stunning piece, congrats on this one
All the Best,
Eric
There are no strangers, only friends you do not know yet.

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/index.php?cat=37270

Offline OldMoney

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1289
  • My Site! www.oldmoney.com.au
    • Walter Holt's Old Money
Re: Trajan AE30 of Cyrenaica and Crete, Cyrene
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2017, 12:26:48 pm »
Interesting question Peter,
I had not realised that these had been reattributed back to Cyrene. I don't yet have
my copy of RPC III, but just had a look at the online version and sure enough my coin
needs to be re-referenced! (below; and also just listed for sale on another site).
I am glad you posted this question, as I would be none-the-wiser otherwise.
New reference: RPC III 12.
All the best,

Walter
Coins of Ephesus
https://groups.yahoo.com/group/ephesuscoins
Walter Holt's Old Money - Ancient Coins
https://www.oldmoney.com.au
Sydney, Australia

Offline Aleph

  • Consul
  • ***
  • Posts: 261
Re: Trajan AE30 of Cyrenaica and Crete, Cyrene
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2017, 01:06:31 pm »
I thought these had all been attributed to struck at Rome mint for circulation in the east based on Carradice and Cowell, NC 1987, p 26-50- the areas of circulation being determined by find spots.  I do not have the new RPC III but am interested to see why they were reattributed to Cyrene minatge.

Offline peterpil19

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1059
    • Ancient Coin Traders
Re: Trajan AE30 of Cyrenaica and Crete, Cyrene
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2017, 12:01:45 am »
Thank you all for your kind comments.

No worries Walter, I am glad I could be of help to you for once, rather than the other way around!

I am still curious if someone has the answer for this. I note that wildwinds still has this coin attributed to Caesarea. The reattribution must have occurred relatively recently.

Peter



Offline peterpil19

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1059
    • Ancient Coin Traders
Re: Trajan AE30 of Cyrenaica and Crete, Cyrene
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2017, 01:01:23 am »
Apparently, the reattribution is in Metcalf,  page 83, note 1. I would be interested to read that note but do not have a copy.

Does anyone have a copy of Metcalf, W.E. The Silver Coinage of Cappadocia, Vespasian-Commodus. ANSNNM 166. (New York, 1996)? If so, can you please share the details of note 1, above?

Peter

Offline FlaviusDomitianus

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1766
    • My gallery:
Re: Trajan AE30 of Cyrenaica and Crete, Cyrene
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2017, 04:36:02 am »
Here is the requested note:

"The lot under consideration included only didrachms, but since the hoard seems to have included smaller denominations as well it is worth pointing out that it vindicates the Arabian attributions of the drachms of Trajan as well as the Cyrenaican one of the drachms and hemidrachms with Zeus Ammon, alluded to in Metcalf, "Tell Kalak," p. 94, and independently by D.R. Walker, who provides a full enough treatment at Metrology 2, pp. 112-13. Since the information is likely to escape record elsewhere, in April 1989 I saw two drachms of the type in the collection of Dr. R, Linkfield of Trenton, N.J.; he recalls their acquisition during a visit to Lybia years ago."

Some thirty years ago I personally handled a smaller size AE of Trajan / Zeus reported to be found in Lybia by an Italian nun.

Alberto


Offline Aleph

  • Consul
  • ***
  • Posts: 261
Re: Trajan AE30 of Cyrenaica and Crete, Cyrene
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2017, 07:15:35 am »
The 1987 NC article I reference above is a long review article that goes through the reattribution in detail...

Offline peterpil19

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1059
    • Ancient Coin Traders
Re: Trajan AE30 of Cyrenaica and Crete, Cyrene
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2017, 08:23:17 pm »
Thank you Alberto.

Aleph, can you please kindly clarify: in your initial post, you mentioned that the 1987 article attributed these coins to Rome, not Cyrene? When you say 'reattribution' above are you now saying the article discusses the reattribution to Cyrene? If so, could you share some of what it says with us? Thanks!

Peter

 

All coins are guaranteed for eternity