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Author Topic: unknown roman, maybe provincial?  (Read 2808 times)

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Ibanez

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unknown roman, maybe provincial?
« on: September 08, 2005, 03:32:42 am »
dear friends,
have you any idea about this specimen?

Offline Pscipio

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Re: unknown roman, maybe provincial?
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2005, 03:55:24 am »
Just a quick guess, it looks like a Iudaea Capta issue struck by the Flavians in the east.

Lars
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Offline mauseus

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Re: unknown roman, maybe provincial?
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2005, 04:20:41 am »
Hi,

Lars, you're right. Caesaraea in Samaria.

This is one from FORVM's current offering, coin 8892 for Domitian, but also known for Titus and Vespasian (I think):


Regards,

Mauseus

Ibanez

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Re: unknown roman, maybe provincial?
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2005, 04:34:37 am »
yes, have you right all. found a reference at: [BROKEN LINK REMOVED BY ADMIN]

Offline Howard Cole

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Re: unknown roman, maybe provincial?
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2005, 04:39:20 am »
This has to be Domitian.  He is the only one I can find with a right facing bust.  The rest have a left facing bust.

Here is the description from SNG ANS, part 6, coins numbers 492-494.

Obv. IMPDOMITIANVSCAESAVGGERMANICVS. Laureate head of Domititan right.
Rev.  Athena advancing left, raising right hand on trophy; holding shield and spear in left hand.

Howard

Ibanez

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Re: unknown roman, maybe provincial?
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2005, 04:46:12 am »
what's it's value?

Offline Steve Minnoch

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Re: unknown roman, maybe provincial?
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2005, 05:15:10 am »
Also RPC 2305.

As the legends are Latin, I think we should call the figure Minerva rather than Athena.

RPC places this under "Domitian's Provincial Judaean Coinage", noting a similarity with civic coinage of Caesarea Maritima which suggests Caesarea was the mint.  The type is unique to Domitian.

Steve



Offline Howard Cole

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Re: unknown roman, maybe provincial?
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2005, 10:27:30 pm »
Also RPC 2305.

As the legends are Latin, I think we should call the figure Minerva rather than Athena.




Steve, I am just reporting what is published in the reference.  As for it being Minerva, I don't think that has to do with the legend but where the coin was minted.  It was minted in a Greek influenced city even if it has Latin legends.  So I would go with Athena.

Howard

Offline Ecgþeow

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Re: unknown roman, maybe provincial?
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2005, 01:14:24 am »
would you call Caesarea more influenced by Greece or Rome?  It was built as a Roman capital in honor of Augustus, in a time when Herod was building up his Roman influence.  I think it was more tied with the west than most Eastern cities.  Then again, it was in the Eastern half of the empire, and therefore a large portion of it's inhabitants would speak Greek. 
anyway, this is just nitpicking, but interesting nonetheless.

~Zach

Offline slokind

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Re: unknown roman, maybe provincial?
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2005, 01:29:38 am »
Just an opinion, but I think you've asked one of those questions that as stated cannot be answered other than falsely.  What if I suggested that, true to its geographical location, its previous political position, and its mixed population, it was not influenced but in the descent from the Seleucid kingdoms?  Someone who knows these coins intimately, though, may be better to make a better statement than mine.  But "more influenced by Greece or Rome?", I think no one could answer.  Which Greece?  By now, which Rome?  The Rome that Paul of Tarsus addressed in Greek?  The Greece of Antioch, of Thessaloniki, of Ephesos, of Corinth?
Pat L.

Offline Steve Minnoch

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Re: unknown roman, maybe provincial?
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2005, 01:59:04 am »
Note that RPC regards these coins as a Provincial level: i.e. circulating throughout the region of Judaea, not a civic issue of Caesarea which is simply the most likely mint location.   (this is one of those cases where the term Roman Provincial for the whole class of localised coinage can cause confusion).   

Surely if this is correct the choice of types comes down to the Provincial (Roman) administration, and thus Minerva is the logical choice also from that aspect - as opposed to a civic issue where the local community would have some input into the choice of types.   For the record, RPC identifies the figure as Minerva, I presume following the logic I outline above.

Steve

Offline Howard Cole

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Re: unknown roman, maybe provincial?
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2005, 06:53:34 am »
Minerva or Athena, what is in a name ...

By this time, I really don't think it makes much difference, since both goddess had taken on each other's attributes. 

Also as Pat pointed out, we really can't know what the people that minted the coin considered the goddess.  So, let us just say it is Minerva/Athena, giving priority to Minerva

Howard

 

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