FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board

Numismatic and History Discussions => Ancient Coin Forum => Topic started by: dougsmit on December 30, 2013, 11:11:04 pm

Title: Quiz, December 30 - Caesar and Augustus
Post by: dougsmit on December 30, 2013, 11:11:04 pm
Some rulers issued coins both as Augustus and as the junior rank of Caesar.  In a few cases, both of these variations are easily obtainable but in a few cases one is substantially more scarce than the other.  A thread on the Beginner Forvm recently asked if Geta ever was (or issued coins as) Augustus because most coins seen were Geta as Caesar.  That gave me the idea for one last attempt at a quiz for this year.

Name a pair of rulers not mentioned higher up in the list one of whose coins are substantially more scarce as Augustus and the other more scarce as Caesar.  Do not list people who never issued coins as one or the other and avoid those whose coins are about equally scarce both ways.  For example, I'll start byposting Geta as more scarce as Augustus and Gordian III as more scarce as Caesar.  How many pairs can we list?  Start immediately but only post one pair per day to give others a chance to use the easy ones.
Title: Re: Quiz, December 30 - Caesar and Augustus
Post by: dougsmit on December 30, 2013, 11:17:54 pm
You do not have to post a photo but it would be nice especially in a couple cases I can think of where not everyone may be aware that both exist for that ruler. 
Title: Re: Quiz, December 30 - Caesar and Augustus
Post by: Pekka K on December 31, 2013, 02:51:31 am
Severus Alexander, scarce as Caesar common as Augustus:
Title: Re: Quiz, December 30 - Caesar and Augustus
Post by: Robert_Brenchley on December 31, 2013, 05:21:08 pm
Constantine II, common as Caesar, harder to find as Augustus.
Title: Re: Quiz, December 30 - Caesar and Augustus
Post by: dougsmit on December 31, 2013, 05:57:25 pm
I apologize twofold.  I failed to make it clear that the request was a pair of rulers - one rare as Augustus and a different one that was rare as Caesar.  Severus Alexander is a fine response for a rare Caesar.  Constantine II is equally good as a rare Augustus but the two were posted by two people several hours apart. 

My collection does not support all that many rare as Augustus but common as Caesar coins.  Constantine I is rare as Caesar and was one of two rulers who had a third option between Caesar and Augustus with the title 'Son of Augustus'.   Since we lost the original idea before it started I'll show that pair instead.  Perhaps I should have just asked for pairs, rare or not, where the ruler issued both ways even though both were common.  Perhaps it was just a bad idea and no one cared. 

Finally I apologize for trying to resurrect what I considered to be a good idea in the Daily Quiz.  It had been two weeks since anyone had posted a new quiz so I guess the rousing response of two here shows that the idea was not long term.  Thanks to Joe for the attempt.   
Title: Re: Quiz, December 30 - Caesar and Augustus
Post by: John Anthony on January 01, 2014, 03:05:43 pm
Well, I'll aim for a pair, but I'll start with Maximianus - scarce as Caesar, common as Augustus. I don't own an issue of his as Caesar.

Good quiz!
Title: Re: Quiz, December 30 - Caesar and Augustus
Post by: curtislclay on January 01, 2014, 03:21:23 pm
As far as I am aware there are no coins known of Maximian as Caesar, although according to the literary sources he held that rank from 21 July 285 until 1 April 286 (Barnes, New Empire of Diocletian and Constantine, p. 4 with note 5 and 6).
Title: Re: Quiz, December 30 - Caesar and Augustus
Post by: John Anthony on January 01, 2014, 03:40:28 pm
As far as I am aware there are no coins known of Maximian as Caesar, although according to the literary sources he held that rank from 21 July 285 until 1 April 286 (Barnes, New Empire of Diocletian and Constantine, p. 4 with note 5 and 6).

Perhaps issued under Diocletian? I don't know this era well at all.

Not my coins attached...
Title: Re: Quiz, December 30 - Caesar and Augustus
Post by: John Anthony on January 01, 2014, 03:48:06 pm
Constantius Chlorus, common as Caesar, less so as Augustus - that sudden and untimely death business...
Title: Re: Quiz, December 30 - Caesar and Augustus
Post by: curtislclay on January 01, 2014, 04:28:59 pm
As far as I am aware there are no coins known of Maximian as Caesar, although according to the literary sources he held that rank from 21 July 285 until 1 April 286 (Barnes, New Empire of Diocletian and Constantine, p. 4 with note 5 and 6).

Perhaps issued under Diocletian? I don't know this era well at all.

I think those are coins of Galerius, Caesar 293-305 AD, who confusingly also bore the name Maximianus. The coins are an argenteus and follis respectively, denominations only introduced c. 294, eight years after Maximian became Augustus.
Title: Re: Quiz, December 30 - Caesar and Augustus
Post by: John Anthony on January 01, 2014, 04:31:18 pm
As far as I am aware there are no coins known of Maximian as Caesar, although according to the literary sources he held that rank from 21 July 285 until 1 April 286 (Barnes, New Empire of Diocletian and Constantine, p. 4 with note 5 and 6).

Perhaps issued under Diocletian? I don't know this era well at all.

I think those are coins of Galerius, Caesar 293-305 AD, who confusingly also bore the name Maximianus. The coins are an argenteus and folles respectively, denominations only introduced c. 294, eight years after Maximian became Augustus.

Ah! That Maximian/Galerius business always manages to confound me. Thanks for the clarification.
Title: Re: Quiz, December 30 - Caesar and Augustus
Post by: drifter182 on January 01, 2014, 04:47:11 pm
My collection does not support all that many rare as Augustus but common as Caesar coins.  Constantine I is rare as Caesar and was one of two rulers who had a third option between Caesar and Augustus with the title 'Son of Augustus'. 

Forgive my ignorance, but who was the other who had a coin issued as "Son of Augustus"? I wasn't aware that these coins existed!
Title: Re: Quiz, December 30 - Caesar and Augustus
Post by: dougsmit on January 01, 2014, 09:07:57 pm
Maximinus II FIL AVGG


 I felt there was enough confusion regarding the various rulers named Max.... that I have a page:
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/dougsmith/max.html

Title: Re: Quiz, December 30 - Caesar and Augustus
Post by: OldMoney on January 01, 2014, 09:58:07 pm
I would like to submit the following:

Volusian as Caesar:
(http://www.acsearch.info/images/48/470659.jpg)
(source: http://www.acsearch.info/record.html?id=470659)

Diadumenian as Augustus:
(http://www.acsearch.info/images/3/25100.jpg)
(source: http://www.acsearch.info/record.html?id=25100)

The other 'FIL AVGG' was Maximinus II,

Walter
Title: Re: Quiz, December 30 - Caesar and Augustus
Post by: drifter182 on January 02, 2014, 03:51:12 pm
Very cool. Thanks, guys.