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Author Topic: Vespasian, Lyon(s), As, RIC 1202 var.  (Read 641 times)

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Offline Arminius

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Vespasian, Lyon(s), As, RIC 1202 var.
« on: September 03, 2014, 04:52:05 am »
Hello,

maybe not worth to mention, but i stumbled on the position of the reverse letters on this Vespasian from Lyons.

72-73 AD.,
As (26-27 mm / 10,57 g), copper, axes about coin alignment ↑↓ (ca. 200°),
Obv.: IMP [CAES]AR VESPASIAN AVG COS IIII, laureate head of Vespasian right, globe at point of neck.
Rev.: S - C , eagle standing facing on globe, wings spread, head right; S C below wings (usually flanking at the sides).
RIC II (new) 1202 var. (rarity C2 for usual type) ; RIC II (old), p. 77, 528a var. ; Coh. 481 ; BMCRE 1935-4-4-35 ; CBN 819-820 .

So far i found only pieces with S C flanking at the sides of eagles´s wings.

In Potator´s gallery " Now in other collections..." there is a similar reverse, but a different obverse type from 77-78 AD. with "COS VIII P P" at the end of the legend:
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=2102&pos=59
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11724/0090-305.jpg

So this die was not existing in 72 AD.

But as i said - maybe not worth to mention.

regards

 :)

Offline curtislclay

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Re: Vespasian, Lyon(s), As, RIC 1202 var.
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2014, 09:03:51 pm »
Giard, Lyon, pl. XLV, no. 72, illustrates six COS IIII / Eagle on globe Lugdunese asses of Vespasian; five of them have S - C in outer field, beside the eagle's wings, but one has S - C in lower field like yours, below the wings and to l. and r. of the globe.

Giard does not mention this difference, nor did he assign separate catalogue numbers to these differing placements of S - C. RIC obviously followed him in this, not mentioning the different placements and including them both under the same catalogue numbers.

One could ask: Since the new RIC assigns different catalogue numbers to the same bronze coins with S - C in field as opposed to S C in exergue, wouldn't these two varieties of Eagle asses at Lyon also have deserved different numbers? What about other clear differences in the placement of S - C in the field, for example RIC Titus pl. 92, 81-82, S left of Victory's wing in one case, below her wing in the other?

My opinion: such differences should only be given their own catalogue numbers when it is clear that they serve to distinguish different issues, for example first issue, S C always in field; second issue, always in exergue. Otherwise, it seems to have been up to the engraver to place the S C where he thought it fitted best, just as it was up to the engraver to fit in the reverse legend around the reverse type, sometimes dividing it in different ways on different dies. Such random differences, without chronological significance, should be included under the same catalogue number in my opinion.

Yet we still want to be aware of such differences, and to keep track of them to a certain extent.  Achieving that goal in the framework of a type catalogue will take some finesse. Some differences might deserve letter distinctions, a, b, c etc., under the main catalogue number; others might be mentioned in footnotes or introductory text or appendixes.
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