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Author Topic: When pigs could fly!  (Read 2183 times)

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Offline Jaimelai

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When pigs could fly!
« on: July 20, 2014, 06:02:14 pm »
Just spent my allowance (for the next few months) and bought this one that caught my eye and wouldn't let go!:




Klazomenai, Ionia 
480-400 B.C.
 Silver Diobol
 1.02 gm, 11 mm
 Obv.: Forepart of winged boar right
 Rev.: Quadripartite incuse square with K in upper right quarter
 Sear 3503; BMC 14; SNG Kayhan 336; SNG Keckman 237–8 corr. (K not noted);
 [SNG Copenhagen 10–1]

Offline quadrans

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Re: When pigs could fly!
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2014, 06:08:03 pm »
Oooops Interesting animal  :)

and  of course a very nice coin  +++

 Q.
All the Best :), Joe
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Offline ga77

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Re: When pigs could fly!
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2014, 03:07:14 am »
A very nice coin!

Vale
Gabriel

Offline areich

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Re: When pigs could fly!
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2014, 03:31:49 am »
A great type in great condition!
Andreas Reich

Offline JBF

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Re: When pigs could fly!
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2014, 06:24:57 pm »
Does anyone know the Greek name for flying pigs? (or boars as the case may be).
Seriously, I would like to know what they called them.

I have flying boars, but not from Klazomenai.  It's a neat coin, someday I'll have to get
one especially since the famous pre-socratic philosopher Anaxagoras came from Klazomenai.
Anaxagoras was the teacher of Archelaus, Archelaus was (reportedly)
the teacher of an early Socrates.  Early Socrates got into some physical theory, while the
later Socrates mainly dealt with ethical or "political" theory.  The early Socrates is
the Socrates parodied in Aristophanes' _The_Clouds_, while Plato and Xenophon
characterize the later Socrates

But again, it is a neat coin, with the reverse quadripartite stamp (with the K in one of the squares),
it has a bit of an Archaic feel to it.

John

Offline Jaimelai

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Re: When pigs could fly!
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2014, 06:52:43 pm »

They could be referring to Chrysaor:

http://www.theoi.com/Ther/Khrysaor.html


Or  the Hus Klazomenaios:

http://www.theoi.com/Ther/HusKlazomenaios.html


Any other ideas?

Offline JBF

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Re: When pigs could fly!
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2014, 12:30:20 am »
They don't say _why_ they consider Chrysaor a winged boar.
They just say that he may have been represented thus.

Medusa is actually a horse goddess and was sometimes portrayed as such (4 legs, horse body) in Archaic art.  She is connected to Poseidon who amongst other things, was a horse god.  Giving "birth" to the Pegasus makes sense for her, a winged boar just doesn't have the same "logic" behind it.  Of course, mixing myth and "logic" may not quite work, and so Chysaor could be a winged boar.

I like the sow of Klazomenai explanation, it gives not only the explanation of the winged boar, but also ties it to the place.

Offline TIF

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Re: When pigs could fly!
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2014, 06:13:53 am »
Nice choice, Jaimelai!   +++

Quote
They could be referring to Chrysaor:

http://www.theoi.com/Ther/Khrysaor.html

Or  the Hus Klazomenaios:

http://www.theoi.com/Ther/HusKlazomenaios.html

Any other ideas?

The Hus Klazomenaios reference was the origin I presumed to be most likely until recently, when I stumbled upon this possibility:

 ;D

I have a squadron of Pigasus coins and am always looking for more.  

Six from Klazomenai.

A drachm from Samos.

An obol from Rhodos.

Offline areich

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Re: When pigs could fly!
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2014, 08:59:29 am »
The bronze in the first picture (2nd row, 3rd coin) is wonderful! I don't remember seeing the type before.
Andreas Reich

Offline Jaimelai

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Re: When pigs could fly!
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2014, 07:53:53 pm »
Great coins!   I always wanted a winged boar ever since I noticed a flying pig in my kids' high school football locker room.  Guess it was one of the coach's motivational devices, so my boys enjoyed the coin as well when I showed it to them (at least my youngest said he would save it for last use in the gum ball machine when I pass).

Offline JBF

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Re: When pigs could fly!
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2014, 11:19:33 pm »
Wonderful pigasi (pigasuses?)

Anyone else a Pink Floyd fan?
They have a song, Pigs on the Wing, (or at least that is a verse in it).
on their Animals album.  They sometimes had at their concerts a giant pig ballon floating around.

Offline Meepzorp

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Re: When pigs could fly!
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2014, 12:23:24 am »
Wonderful pigasi (pigasuses?)

Anyone else a Pink Floyd fan?
They have a song, Pigs on the Wing, (or at least that is a verse in it).
on their Animals album.  They sometimes had at their concerts a giant pig ballon floating around.


Hi JBF,

A Pink Floyd fan checking in here. They are actually my second-favorite band of all time (after Rush). :)

Offhand, I think that Pink Floyd had 2 songs with that title. There are "Pigs on the Wing, Part 1" and "Pigs on the Wing, Part 2". At least, that's how they are titled in the scroll bar when Sirius satellite radio does their Pink Floyd channel (a special that they run from time to time, which they have done 2 or 3 times now). If you listen to the lyrics, they seem like songs that Roger Waters wrote about his father. Of course, they are in addition to "When the Tigers Broke Free", which is the more famous song he wrote about his father.

I saw Pink Floyd live during their "Momentary Lapse of Reason" tour in circa 1987. And I saw Roger Waters perform "The Wall" live in circa Fall 2010. And yes, at both concerts, they floated around a giant flying pig balloon. That is one of their "trademarks". In typical Roger Waters fashion, at "The Wall" concert in 2010, there were numerous political messages written on the giant flying pig balloon. I remember the phrase: "Mother, should I trust the government? No f**king way!!!", which was written right on the pig's butt. It was also written on the wall that is slowly constructed during the concert. Of course, that is a phrase from the song "Mother". Someone was even selling illegal/bootleg T-shirts at the concert with the flying pig on it. I can't wait for the live concert DVD to be released. I assume that is going to happen when the European leg of his tour is over.

In case you are unaware of it, Roger Waters gave a great interview on the "Howard Stern Show" about 2-3 years ago. Howard just re-ran it about 1-2 weeks ago.

And Pink Floyd is supposed to be releasing a new album (without Roger :( :'() this Fall.

So, yes, pigs didn't only fly in antiquity. They still fly today. Just ask anyone who has been to a Pink Floyd or Roger Waters concert. :)

Meepzorp

Offline Meepzorp

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Re: When pigs could fly!
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2014, 12:24:51 am »
Wonderful pigasi (pigasuses?)

 :) :) :) :) :)

Offline TIF

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Re: When pigs could fly!
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2014, 06:47:08 am »
Meepzorp and JBF:  Yep, Floyd fan here.  DSOTM is the best album in the history of forever.

Pigasus coins inspired this themed collection:  http://prezi.com/q7mw1k1zur65/pink-floyd-animals/  Let it load and then view full screen.  Unfortunately I was unable to control the start and stop of audio so only one song from the album plays for the entire presentation and it's not always sync'd.  When you view full screen and hit play the slide show should automatically advance but sometimes it doesn't work correctly.  There are arrow buttons to manually advance if that happens, plus you can click the screen to enlarge anything you wish to see in more detail.

Edited:  they've changed it and now you have to select "autoplay" from the little gear symbol at the bottom right.  4 Seconds works pretty well for the tempo of the song.

Offline JBF

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Re: When pigs could fly!
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2014, 02:38:45 pm »
There has gotta be a way to corner the market on pigasus coins, and then cash in on all the Pink Floyd fans, but I am not sure how….  btw, for those who don't know, but might care to understand the reference (probably not), the Tigers that broke free, are Tiger tanks, not the ferocious megafauna.  So imagine infantry against Tiger tanks, not some song about Tigers born free and running in the wild.  That's what I seem to remember the song being about.  But let's not carry _too_ far with this Pink Floyd digression, unless of course someone figures out how to corner the market on pigasi and that way we can all cash in +++  I think that would be a good sign that someone was a _true_ Pink Floyd fan, if they owned a coin with a pigasus on it!  I'll have to convince my buddy of that.

I suspect that the worse thing for flying pigs is like the worse thing for flying monkeys.  (flying monkey s***)
Of course if you want to see (or feel) flying monkey s***, all you have to do is go the monkey island at the zoo :P

Offline Rupert

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Re: When pigs could fly!
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2014, 04:50:42 pm »
Just having spotted this thread, I'd like to add a very interesting (I think) pigasus.

Kyzikos, early 5th century BC
Obv. Winged (!!) protome of boar left; behind, tunny upwards
Roaring lion's head left; before, crescent
8 mm, 0.57 g, die axis 7 o'clock

The basic type is, of course, abundant, but I never saw the wings on the boar and the crescent over the lion's mouth before.

Best regards,

Rupert
Ducunt volentem fata, nolentem trahunt.

Offline TIF

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Re: When pigs could fly!
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2014, 06:50:02 pm »
That's quite an interesting coin, Rupert!  I thought I'd ID'd all possible winged boar issues but this one missed the list.  Now corrected.  Now to find one for the TIF Pigasus Squadron, along with  many other uncommon non-Klazomenai issues :)

 

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