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Author Topic: mvntripi mark on a roman oil lamp  (Read 7480 times)

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sledge

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mvntripi mark on a roman oil lamp
« on: September 08, 2008, 11:33:29 am »
hello,

I am quite proud to start this category but I wonder If it will give me some information.... I have a roman oil lamp with "MVNTRIPI" written on the back side. I have found on internet this mark reported on very old books but without any information on the date or geographical data. Can I get these data on FORVM ?

regards,

slegde.

Offline *Alex

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Re: mvntripi mark on a roman oil lamp
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2008, 12:29:09 pm »
Hi Sledge,

Your name "MVNTRIPI" is a known potter's stamp. You will find it noted in the appendix on page 407 of "The History of Ancient Pottery" by Samuel Birch (1858).

This book can be found on google books at the following link:

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=iZsEAAAAYAAJ&printsec=titlepage&dq=History+of+Ancient+Pottery+vol+II++birch&source=gbs_summary_s&cad=0#PPP5,M1

I suspect though, from your post, that you already know of this book. The link, however, might be of interest to some of the other members of this board.


Alex.

sledge

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Re: mvntripi mark on a roman oil lamp
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2008, 03:18:52 pm »
Indeed, I was mentioning this book in which I did not found any details on the date and the place where it has been manufactured. I will post a picture tomorrow to let you see it.  Is there any other sources to get more data on the oil lamp ?

Offline *Alex

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Re: mvntripi mark on a roman oil lamp
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2008, 04:07:12 pm »
Guy de la Bedoyere is a well known expert on Roman pottery here in Britain but whether that extends to oil lamps or not I do not know. Particularly, as is probable, if the lamp was manufactured in another part of the Roman Empire.
I am afraid that, so far, I been unable to out find anything else about your stamp.

Alex.

Strobilus

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Re: mvntripi mark on a roman oil lamp
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2008, 12:24:06 pm »
The signature MVNTRIPI is not familiar to me but it is likely to be an abbreviation of a two- or three-part name. This form is typical of lampmakers' signatures on Italian and North African lamps.

I did not find anything from a cursory glance at Balil or Bailey but I have not searched Deneauve or other references. Are you sure your reading is correct (it might not be the same potter as that in Birch)?

If MVN is correct it is likely that your lampmaker was a member of Munatii family of lampmakers, formerly thought to be Italian but possibly working in North Africa (Africa Proconsularis), during the 1st and early 2nd centuries AD. Members included Lucius Munatius Successus and the prolific Lucius Munatius Adiectus.

Just the form of the signature suggests your lamp is from the Central Mediterranean area and of the 1st to 3rd centiries AD but an image or two might pin it down a bit more.

There are a few North African lamps at the bottom of this page (click the images to see more detail) that might compare?
http://www.romulus2.com/lamps/lampcat/lampcat3.shtml

David
http://www.romulus2.com/lamps/

 

sledge

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Re: mvntripi mark on a roman oil lamp
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2008, 02:24:22 pm »
hello,

Thanks for this very interesting answer. I have added now a picture and I confirm the "MVNTRIPI" stamp. I read clearly all the letters except for the last one.

If you need the back side, I will post it tomorrow. However, the shape are really like the "MVNTRIPI" capital letters.
 
could you please give me the references of the books your are mentioning ?
Can you give me an idea of the value of this oil lamp ?

regards,

sledge.

Strobilus

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Re: mvntripi mark on a roman oil lamp
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2008, 06:53:53 pm »
Hello Sledge,

Thank you for the image. The lamp was almost certainly made in the Roman province of North Africa (Africa Proconsularis) in the second half of the 2nd or early 3rd century AD. Although similar to slightly earlier lamps (middle of the 2nd century) certain features (e.g. the narrower shoulder, the lack of grooves to the handle and the restricted piercing of the handle) point to a later date.

That would strengthen my guess that your lamp was made by a later member of the Munatii family (somewhat later than the date range normally accepted for the prominent members).

The references I mentioned are Alberto Balil, Lucernae Singulares, Brussels 1968; D.M. Bailey, A Catalogue of Lamps in the British Museum, British Museum, 1975-96; and Jean Deneauve, Lampes de Carthage, C.N.R.S., Paris, 1969.

I prefer not to give a monetary value.

David

sledge

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Re: mvntripi mark on a roman oil lamp
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2008, 01:04:52 pm »
Hello,

You can see now the back side with the "MVNTRIPI" stamp. This one is not an "hand made writing stamp". I have found an "hand make writing stamp" for a similar oil lamp type found on the following site http://www.romulus2.com/lamps/lampcat/lampcat3.shtml

If I have well understood, "MVN" stands for the family name, but could you please explains the meaning of "TRIPI" ? Is it other family names or information on the manufacturing place ?

Can we use this stamp style difference to get a more accurate manufacturing date ? I assume that It should be less ancient than the one found in the internet site because of the stamp printing improvement... "time is money", sorry I should say "time was also money" at that time !

Many Thanks,

Sledge.

Strobilus

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Re: mvntripi mark on a roman oil lamp
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2008, 06:47:00 pm »
Quote
This one is not an "hand made writing stamp". I have found an "hand make writing stamp" for a similar oil lamp type found on the following site http://www.romulus2.com/lamps/lampcat/lampcat3.shtml
...
I assume that It should be less ancient than the one found in the internet site because of the stamp printing improvement... "time is money", sorry I should say "time was also money" at that time !

The use of formal capitals for inscriptions on these lamps (as on your example) appears to have been commoner but contemporaneous with the use of cursive letters for them (as on the lamp in the link http://www.romulus2.com/lamps/database/lamp.php?82).

Both forms of inscription were created on the patrix (or archetype) from which the mould was made; thus the appearance of either form of inscription on the lamps themselves was only a moulded copy. One type is no more hand-made than the other. The lamps themselves were not inscribed by hand (except in very rare cases).

Making lamps in moulds:
http://www.romulus2.com/lamps/articles/art2.htm


From your image I suspect the reading should be MVNTREPI (the letter 'E' is often very narrow in inscriptions of this type). This would refer to Lucius Munatius Threptus, whose signature includes variations such as LMVNTHRE, MVNTREP and MVNTREPT (with or without the 'H'; spelling varied widely in those days). I have now looked through Deneauve and had a closer look at Bailey and other references. Bailey suggests he was working in Italy but later research suggests North Africa as more likely.

Quote
If I have well understood, "MVN" stands for the family name, but could you please explains the meaning of "TRIPI" ? Is it other family names or information on the manufacturing place ?

Taking your lampmaker as an example: 'Lucius' was the praenomen, or personal name. MVN or 'Munatius' would be the nomen, signifying the gens, roughly the equivalent of a clan name or wider family. TREPI or 'Threptus' would be the cognomen, which began as a nickname but became a more specific family name after Republican times.

Places of manufacture are extremely rare on lamps. The inscription on your lamp is purely the name of the maker.

I doubt that in the absence of context you will get a more accurate dating than 2nd century AD.

David

 

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