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Author Topic: A wonderful new book on the coinage of Aurelian, Tacitus, Florian  (Read 3680 times)

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Offline curtislclay

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Sylviane Estiot, Catalogue of the Paris collection of Roman Imperial coins, Vol. XII, D'Aurélian á Florien (270-276 après J.-C.), in two volumes, 456 pp. and 100 plates, Paris/Strasbourg, 2004.
I have only had Sylviane's book in hand for two days now, but from what I can see it is a wonderful achievement and exactly what all Aurelian collectors and all serious Roman numismatists have been hoping for.  
You will find there not only descriptions and illustrations of the 1998 coins and medallions of Aurelian, Severina, Tacitus, and Florian in the Paris collection, but tables presenting the sequence of types and legends at each mint, citations of at least one actual specimen of every attested variant, a detailed discussion justifying the chosen sequence and chronology of the issues, illustrations of 556 important variants that are missing in the Paris collection, and fundamental discussions of the sequence and chronology of events during the reigns in question (where did the emperor travel, and what wars did he fight, at what dates?), the monetary system, the revolt of the moneyers, the reform of Aurelian, and dozens and dozens of questions about type and legend interpretation.  
This book clearly supersedes both Sylviane's own two books on Aurelian, Tacitus and Florian in the Venera Hoard, and Goebl's monograph on Aurelian, as THE place to go for information on the coinage and history of the years 270-6.
Of course the book is expensive, and in French, two hurdles that have to be taken!
Sylviane is working on a similar catalogue of the Paris coins of Probus.  I wish her fortitude, endurance, and the best of luck in bringing that project too to completion!
Curtis Clay

Douglas

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Re:A wonderful new book on the coinage of Aurelian, Tacitus, Florian
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2004, 08:52:35 am »
Sounds like an excellent book, Curtis. It is wonderful to have such excellent experts as yourself and Sylviane Estiot on this board. I, as someone new to this hobby, appreciate your candor and willingness to share your knowledge in this forum.

Doug

Offline maridvnvm

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Re:A wonderful new book on the coinage of Aurelian, Tacitus, Florian
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2004, 09:32:25 am »
Curtis,
This is good news, not quite as good for me as if it were the Probus volume, but good news none the less. I will be seeing how I can get hold of a volume.
Regards,
Martin

Offline Roma_Orbis

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Re:A wonderful new book on the coinage of Aurelian, Tacitus, Florian
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2004, 10:57:47 am »
Does this volume belong to the serie "Catalogue des monnaies de l'Empire Romain" of the Bibliothèque Nationale? Volumes I to III have been issued already (Augustus, Tiberius to Nero, 68 uprising to Nerva), with the next volume, Trajan, to come?

Jérôme 8)

Offline curtislclay

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Re:A wonderful new book on the coinage of Aurelian, Tacitus, Florian
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2004, 11:45:50 am »
Jerome,
    Yes, that is correct.
Regards,
Curtis Clay
Curtis Clay

Offline leetoone

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Re: A wonderful new book on the coinage of Aurelian, Tacitus, Florian
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2005, 04:41:27 pm »
Just bought a copy of this work from Spink today. Most impressive. Looks to be just as Curtis describes although my poor French limits my comments. I also look forward to the Probus volume.

Thanks Sylviane

Best wishes

Lee

mickdale

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Re: A wonderful new book on the coinage of Aurelian, Tacitus, Florian
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2005, 01:06:57 pm »
quote "although my poor French limits my comments" - is there a way of scanning text, then having it translated by a computer programme or via the internet. i know it sounds far fetched but a relative in the I.T. industry mentioned something along these lines?

Offline wolfgang336

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Re: A wonderful new book on the coinage of Aurelian, Tacitus, Florian
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2005, 02:02:31 pm »
Scanning and having that translated... no. The easiest thing would be to use Babelfish Translator (http://babelfish.altavista.com/tr) and type in the blocks of text yourself. The translation won't be perfect, but it'll be close. The other thing would be to send it to a professional translator, which will cost you a small fortune.

Evan

Offline curtislclay

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Re: A wonderful new book on the coinage of Aurelian, Tacitus, Florian
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2005, 04:25:46 pm »
Anyone destined to become a serious collector of ancient coins should be required to learn both French and German at school or in college!  A serious numismatist (or ancient historian or classicist) simply cannot get by without these two languages, apart from the many other advantages of learning them.
The translation programs, in my experience, don't really suffice.  They translate some sentences correctly, but make gibberish of others.  Often I would rather struggle with the foreign language pure than with what Babelfish produces as a supposed English translation of it!
Here is Babelfish for a random passage in Estiot's book, p. 102.  I have corrected a few errors caused by my inability to type in the proper French accents:

For R. Göbl, the currencies Sol Dominus Imperi Romani are sesterces and tests of multiples of gold, produced by the workshop of Rome at the time of a great multiform emission dating from the second half of 274. This great emission (its emission 6) includes, in his opinion, of strike of gold, sums of money, of aureliani, and of different bronze species. We have shown that with regard to the gold emission, Göbl gathers, to allot them to Rome, a disparate whole of aurei pertaining to Milan, Siscia and Cyzique (even its pl. 74-75). As for the series Ground Dominus Imperi Romani, several elements prevent of y even sesterces. Their metal composition the fact of being included in the category of the balk silver plates, and not bronzes.

Here is what the French actually says:
According to R. Göbl, the Sol Dominus Imperi Romani coins are sestertii and test strikes for gold multiples, produced by the mint of Rome as part of a large and diverse issue dating to the second half of 274.  This large issue (his Issue 6) includes, according to him, coins in gold, denarii, aureliani, and several denominations of bronze coins.   I have demonstrated that, as far as the gold coins are concerned, Göbl pieces together and proceeds to attribute to Rome a disparate group of aurei that actually belong to Milan, Siscia, and Cyzicus (see his pl. 74-75).  As to the Sol Dominus Imperi Romani coins, several factors oppose their classification as sestertii.  Their metallic composition assigns them to the category of silvered billon coins, not bronzes.
Curtis Clay

vic9128

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Re: A wonderful new book on the coinage of Aurelian, Tacitus, Florian
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2005, 05:26:55 pm »
There are programs you can use to scan pages and translate into text. One I know of is Scansoft Omnipage. It makes mistakes though;and as Curtis has said,Babelfish also make mistakes.

Offline Heliodromus

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Re: A wonderful new book on the coinage of Aurelian, Tacitus, Florian
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2005, 09:32:47 pm »
I use Bablefish to translate coin e-mails as well cover letters for snail-mailed coin payments, and can also attest at how awful it is! My test is to translate from English into the target language, then back into English and see if it's still comprehensible - usually not at first attempt. If not, then simplify the grammar and vocabularly and repeat!

Google apparently has a research translation project (different from what's available via their search page) that does much better than current machine translations by using a brute force lookup technique. What they've done is to aquire a large corpus of human translated documents (e.g. from the UN), and have automatically analyzed these to discover the correspondences. They then translate new documents essentially by looking for the largest fragments that exist in this human translated fragment database. The technique apparently produces very high quality results (no doubt thanks to a massive database), and unlike conventional machine translation has no problem with idiomatic prose. Hopefully it's make it's way out of the lab to the real world soon!

Ben

Offline slokind

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Re: A wonderful new book on the coinage of Aurelian, Tacitus, Florian
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2005, 10:42:43 pm »
If A. E. Housmann were still alive (and was not being killed from suffering Babelfish), he'd have to write a new "O suitably attired in leather boots, Head of a traveller...", since the latter, though excruciating, does make sense if you translate it back into Greek.  The Babelfish version of the French pop song of 1939, Madame la Marquise, however, is unintentionally quite hilarious in the wrong way and the real fun of it wholly lost.
Let me tell you the quick and easy.  Take detective stories translated into French or Italian or German and, after having learned the rudiments of verbs and such, just sit down and read for an hour each evening.  Agatha Christie in any language, George Simenon and Raymond Chandler are recommended, and Erich Maria Remarque's All Quiet on the Western Front is recommended: 20 pages into it, you just keep going.  It won't take many of them to give you a sense of the language as such, and you're just as bad as Babelfish if you try to do it by some rules of thumb!   Pat Lawrence.
P.S. Make sure that your children aren't as badly cheated as you werre!

Offline curtislclay

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Re: A wonderful new book on the coinage of Aurelian, Tacitus, Florian
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2005, 11:13:46 am »
      The book was jointly published by the Bibliothèque nationale in Paris and by Poinsignon Numismatique in Strasbourg, from whom we obtained our copies.  The price is 180 euros.
Curtis Clay

Offline Pscipio

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Re: A wonderful new book on the coinage of Aurelian, Tacitus, Florian
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2005, 11:34:34 am »
Thanks Curtis! I could use it pretty well since I'm focusing a little bit on Aurelian, but... 180 Euro, autsch!

Regards
Lars
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