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Author Topic: What books?  (Read 729 times)

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Offline Flav V

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What books?
« on: March 14, 2023, 05:13:20 pm »
Hello,

I want to start greek coins and i can obtain beautiful coins but i need a book for progress. Actually i only read the greek and compare between types on internet. My id are corrects but i would like to be faster. There is so many periods and areas... i dont know what book can help me. SNG? but so much volumes.. I saw there is french books but i dont know the names. What is the better for having the most coins in the same book and if possible with prices or rarity.

Offline Curtis JJ

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Re: What books?
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2023, 05:44:55 pm »
It depends what you want the books for. I would say forget about using books to find the prices of Greek coins, you won't find anything very satisfactory. If you just want to be able to identify coins, the most useful tools are going to be ancient coin websites: Wildwinds, ACSearch, RPC Online, various others.

For identification purposes for Greek coins, you would really need to build a small library of books. You might try buying one of the more comprehensive SNG series, like SNG von Aulock or SNG Copenhagen (I think you can find reprints of either for under $1,000), but even so there will be many coins that you can't find in there. (And even if you can, you will still have to look them up online to find out the prices for similar examples.)

Other people do things differently, and may use their books in different ways, but here's how it works for me: I've been collecting ancient coin books and old auction catalogs for 25-35 years, so I have maybe a few hundred of each -- a medium size library for an ordinary collector, but small compared to most professional coin dealers. (I don't necessarily have all the most useful books, but I have most of the recognizable beginner books and many specialized volumes.) But even that isn't enough to identify every coin -- or even most coins. If I want to identify a coin (or especially determine the price), I still usually start with the internet. Some people get by fine with zero books (but I don't recommend it).

Don't get me wrong: Ancient coin books are great. I like them as much as the coins. But I would say the books are much better for learning about ancient coins in general, the background and the history behind them, what the different types mean, the history of each mint or kingdom, and so on....

If the coins you're dealing with all come from a certain mint or region -- like Egypt Alexandria, or coins from Thrace. Then you might be able to find a better reference with just a few volumes. (I would say it might be somewhat easier for Roman Imperial or Byzantine Coins. You could try to get by with just ERIC II (by Suarez), and it would cover most coins, and maybe even give you some sense of rarity, but for identifying/selling coins it would still be better to use online sources.)
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Offline Victor C

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Re: What books?
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2023, 06:12:07 pm »
A good place to start is Greek Coins and Their Values vol 1 and vol 2 by David Sear

Victor Clark

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Offline Molinari

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Re: What books?
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2023, 06:42:51 pm »
How much are you looking to spend?

Offline Flav V

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Re: What books?
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2023, 06:49:20 pm »
I actually use those websites... But for example if im in front of a seller, without internet: if the legend dont indicate the king or other, im bot able to identify it. And thats what i want to be able to do. Example with this one:

https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=10617942

if i cant search on internet i cant identify it. Is there a quick way to see on book or other the types and how recognyze area? Wildwinds is good but there is so many coins and areas that it is complicate for learning. I saw a book in french with a photo for each coin... Any idea of the name?

between 200 and 1.000

Offline Curtis JJ

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Re: What books?
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2023, 08:33:37 pm »
Example with this one:

https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=10617942

if i cant search on internet i cant identify it. Is there a quick way to see on book or other the types and how recognyze area?

That's a good example. If you supplement a book with online research together, that can be worthwhile. Victor is right, if you're going to have one book (or pair of books) on Greek coins, you can't go wrong starting with Sear's Greek Coins and Their Values. But it will only get you so far.

Here's what you would find in this situation (your example coin + that book):

[SEE ATTACHMENT]

You'll flip through the pages and recognize that the coin looks like Number 368 [corr. 366]: EDIT: Actually, mistake in the illustration, it should say "366" not "368", that is an "AR Didrachm" not "AV Stater". So, if you recognized Sear's mistake (I didn't at first), you'd be able to ID it as an AR Didrachm from Calabria Tarentum, with estimated price of 120 GBP (in 1978; I don't know if Sear updated the prices in later editions, there's at least a 2000 ed.). The price is too old to really be useful, but at least now you know the coin is from Calabria, Tarentum (or "Taras") and what denomination. You could then use your phone or whatever to look up other examples of Silver Didrachm-Nomos that are for sale or have sold at auction. (This one was auctioned with a starting bid for 300 Euros but went unsold; to me it looks like a possible fourree or plated ancient counterfeit, but that would've been a reasonable starting price for a solid silver example.)

In that case, you could search online and find the following sold coins (13 total examples across four kinds of sales) and extrapolate reasonable prices: [LINK]

The bigger challenge is that, unless you already have experience looking at and identifying lots of Greek coins (or at least the kind of coins you're trying to buy), you will only be able to identify them in the most general possible terms. If you can only get as far as city, denomination, and general type, what seem like small differences in type can still make huge differences for prices. (Consider the price range, for example, for one fairly narrow category of coins, 5th century Tetradrachms with Arethousa reverses from Syracuse, for which Sear or any general reference only ID's a few types:
[LINK].)

I do highly recommend by Sear (and possibly other volumes). In some cases it would surely be useful, but anything you get is going to have limits. It takes a while to become familiar with a wide range of Greek coins, but  I suppose it's probably possible to "learn on the job," so to speak.
“Collect the collectors…” John W Adams’ advice to J Orosz (Asylum 38, 2: p51)

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Offline Flav V

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Re: What books?
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2023, 09:36:10 am »
I bough sear I and II. Thanks for the advise. Now i dont know if SNG are good too, it seems be only coins in collection and therefore there will be a lot of coins missing. And there is in references SNG and SNG ANS what is the difference?

I can read greek and estimate the city. I only need help on coins without legend.

On the link i see one of the coins with a crescent on the left... which is not mentionned on Sear. Someone told those details dont change the value. I have an example, this is a coin i just bough (see photo). The most common type is with tuna at exergue and mine has nike which is clearly more rare when i look at ac search for example. My friend said it dont add value.

Offline Curtis JJ

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Re: What books?
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2023, 10:26:12 am »
And there is in references SNG and SNG ANS what is the difference?

"SNG" refers to a vast series, with a complicated organization. SNG ANS is part of it. Formally, each series is part of the SNG for a particular country. So SNG ANS can be written as "Sylloge Nummorum Graecorum. [UNITED STATES]. THE COLLECTION OF THE AMERICAN NUMISMATIC SOCIETY. PARTS 1–10." (You may be able to get it under 1,000 but it might be hard to find a complete set.) I don't know how many total volumes or parts are included in the entire SNG, but it's a lot (too many for any but the most ambitious numismatic library). You can see it described here on the Numiswiki page:

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=Sylloge%20Nummorum%20Graecorum

Personally, I use a different series, also published by ANS (but totally separate from SNG ANS): Ancient Coins in North American Collections, 10 Volumes (ACNAC, it was originally called Greek Coins in North American Collections, but it includes some Roman). Not as easy to use as SNG, but it has a focus on certain types that I wanted, and is more useful for provenance research since many of the coins are in private collections. (I still need a few more volumes to be complete.)
“Collect the collectors…” John W Adams’ advice to J Orosz (Asylum 38, 2: p51)

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Offline Flav V

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Re: What books?
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2023, 10:59:04 am »
So as i undersand SNG all shows collections. There is similar books on roman coins with ANS but we have RIC and other that classify each known type. And it seems dont exist on greek coins.

About hoover? https://www.cgb.fr/handbook-of-greek-coinage-series-volume-7-handbook-of-coins-of-northern-and-central-anatolia-hoover-o-d-,lh45,a.html
Should i buy one Hoover or one SNG?

What do you think about my coin and the variant with nike?

Offline Molinari

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Re: What books?
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2023, 11:19:05 am »
You could get all entries in the HGC series for c. $650 from the publisher.  That's ten books with perhaps three more on the way.

Offline Flav V

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Re: What books?
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2023, 01:33:37 pm »
Your last link is empty. HGC is a few more complete than SNG?

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Offline Flav V

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Re: What books?
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2023, 02:02:49 pm »
Ok i will buy some HGC too. Sear 1994 is better than the previous?

Offline Enodia

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Re: What books?
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2023, 05:56:49 pm »
I'm really not that impressed with HGC, which I think of as Sear on steroids. I waited a long time for Volume 1 (Magna Graecia), the only one I was really interested in and which was released last. I have Volume 2 (Sicily) as well. Probably not bad as an introduction though

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Offline Virgil H

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Re: What books?
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2023, 01:07:50 am »
Comparing Sear Greek to Hoover Greek Series, there is no contest for me that Hoover is better. They are more comprehensive than Sear by far, but more volumes and thus more expensive, but if you have a geographical focus, Hoover can be cost effective. I have both. SNG is super expensive and out of my reach, especially the truly useful SNG volumes. I augment the books with online research. I guess you can do it almost all online, but I like using the books for my final attributions if possible. Wildwinds is super useful for getting in the ballpark and I love the Plant book for getting city ideas for Greek coins I have no attributions for.

Virgil

Offline Flav V

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Re: What books?
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2023, 07:49:09 pm »
I will receive both. I will tell you my opinion.

Offline Enodia

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Re: What books?
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2023, 08:03:06 pm »
HGC is better, but to my mind not significantly. Then again I have a specialized collection so the generic information of both series is next to useless to me.
I guess if I was just buying random Greek coins that I liked it might be useful, but I was pretty disappointed overall.

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Offline Enodia

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Re: What books?
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2023, 08:06:17 pm »
Flav, if you're going to buy both then just get HGC, but be prepared to spend if you want them all. Sear can be MUCH cheaper!

~ Peter

Offline mauseus

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Re: What books?
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2023, 08:48:48 pm »
Hi,
Depends what you are looking for in many respects, Curtis JJ was correct. You also are looking for a quick reference in front of seller's according to your second post. That suggests one or two volumes to carry around with a reasonable index to get you in the ball park and get a fully accurate reference later. In that respect I would recommend Plant's Greek coins volume or the three Lindgren volumes on bronze coins that are more or less portable.
Regards,

Mauseus

Offline PtolemAE

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Re: What books?
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2023, 12:20:17 pm »
Hello,

I want to start greek coins and i can obtain beautiful coins but i need a book for progress. Actually i only read the greek and compare between types on internet. My id are corrects but i would like to be faster. There is so many periods and areas... i dont know what book can help me. SNG? but so much volumes.. I saw there is french books but i dont know the names. What is the better for having the most coins in the same book and if possible with prices or rarity.


Oliver Hoover's Handbook of Greek Coins (HGC) is outstanding for precisely your requirements and includes relative rarity notes. Just get the volumes covering regions that interest you.

Prices published in books are out of date and nearly meaningless, except perhaps for relative comparisons. Only recent auctions and current dealer offerings can help you there.

If you wish to identify Ptolemaic bronze coins then the best resource available is:

http://ptolemybronze.com/ptolemy_series.html

PtolemAE

Offline Brennos

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Re: What books?
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2023, 12:35:01 pm »
I guess that the book in French that you are referring to is "traité des monnaies grecques et romaines" of Ernest Babelon : https://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=trait%E9

It is an excellent work but is obviously a bit outdated.

I also recommend the two-volume Sear book as a starting point. It can be used with the BMC, available online , which the author refers to systematically.
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=Library%20of%20Ancient%20Coinage%20-%20British%20Museum%20Collection

The Hoover is "the new Sear", more complete and with all the coins illustrated. After that there are hundreds of specialized books (treatises, monographs...). The SNG's are in my opinion useful for more advanced collectors.

I have myself about a hundred books and I am only focus on a small part of the greek coinage.
 

 

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