FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board
Numismatic and History Discussion Forums => Byzantine Coins Discussion Forum => Topic started by: joma-tk on September 15, 2010, 11:50:03 am
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I have this idea for some time now.
This forum has some "sticky" topics but I always felt that there is an important one missing.
So I suggest to the moderators to think if it would be a good idea to create a permanent
"unlisted Byzantine coins" thread.
By unlisted I mean not mentioned in Sear or any other major Byzantine coins reference.
I think it would be of great help both to collectors as well as it would help alot any future issue of a Byzantine coins catalogue .
If you agree, just create the "sticky" topic and I can easily contibute quite a few coins both from my collection or from other sources which I have saved in my database.
I am sure that many of our friends in this forum can also contribute their specimens accordingly.
tk
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TK
I think that is a great idea ;)
cw
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Hi
I collect a few byzantine coins, and would be very interested in seeing what people have found. So sounds like a good idea to me. :)
Regards
apgrassman
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Thanks Wiley!
OK here goes the first one!
"Iustinianus" AE follis Thessalonica mint.
I put Iustinianus in quotes, since I am not sure if this coin was produced intentionally or
-most likely- is the result of a mistake.
In any case a very nice coin.
tk
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Hi, a great idea!
which references are exactly regarded as major?
Of course Sear, MIB, MIBE, MIBEC, probably also Grierson, DOC. What about BMC?
Are specialized books like Anastasi, Füeg, etc. major references?
It would be nice to have a definition, may be a moderator could post a list.
byzcoll
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Good idea - i will search my very best!
Also for seals?
(http://www.arminius-numismatics.com/coppermine1414/cpg1414/albums/userpics/10001/thumb_8144.jpg)
:branchesthreeleft: regards :branchesthreeright:
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Of course Sear, MIB, MIBE, MIBEC, probably also Grierson, DOC.
In my opinion just these and the two Bendall's books on Paleologean coins.
tk
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This is a 1/8 siliqua of Heraclius, Ravenna mint, with a cross potent on steps on the reverse. Only two known specimens to date! found online in a recent auction;
Reference given: LHS 102, 476.
9 mm, 0.26 g
byzcoll
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An unpublished globular solidus of Justinian II. The globular shape suggests Carthage mint, the I in the field on the reverse is interpreted as regnal year 10, the year of Carthages capitulation. (The coin may also have been struck outside Carthage by the retreating Byzantines or may be even on Sardinia.) Extremely rare, I could track two examples only, this one and one auctioned by Sothebys.
11 mm, 4.37 g
byzcoll
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This is an intersting and may be so far unique hybrid: obverse is a bearded Justin II from a die used for the full weight solidi (Sear 344), but as the reverse reveals it is a 22 siliquae light weight issue. Actually full weight and 22 siliquae issues sometimes share the same obverse dies, but I have never seen or read of this combination.
byzcoll
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As you all know, Constantinopolis folles of Iustinianus are always struck with a cross above M.
You will never find a specimen with a christogram or a chrismon or anything else in its position.
Wright?
Well not exactly. Althought I had never seen –so far- any specimen with anything else but a cross, Hahn mentions in MIBE that for year 30 only, some limited quantities of ceremonial folles were struck with a christogram above M.
Recently I was fortunate enough to find on e-bay an unlisted variation of the above type with the christogram inverted.
tk
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This previously unknown solidus of Justinian I has recently been auctioned in Germany. It bears the hitherto unseen mintmark ALEXAOB, which is interpreted as Alexandria, but notably the lettering is all Latin, not Greek as seen with a later issue of Justin II (A :Greek_Lambda: :Greek_Xi: OB).
byzcoll
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Again, as in a previous post of mine some days ago, I present a coin which of course does not officially exist.
Barbaric hybrid of Anastasius follis from Antioch (presumably...) with a reverse resembling Iustinianus follis.
tk
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I think it could be useful to contribute here even coins with small "deviations" from normal.
So here goes an Iustinus I pentanummium, Sear 74, with CON inverted.
tk
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Here is an interesting Iustinianus 16 nummium.
There were supposed to be two dots on each side of H.
Sear 180, unpublished variation.
tk
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Unlisted
John Comnenus-Ducas
Copper trachy
Thessalonica
1237-1244
St Theodore, John L., and St Demetrius holding cross circle between
cw
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This solidus of Heraclius, Constantinople mint, is unusual because it belongs to the second emission and lacks an officina letter on the reverse. The reverse die is known for the type Sear 729A. However Sear 729A is from the first emission of solidi with the obverse inscription d NN hERACLI PER AVI. The obverse of the coin shown below is from the second emission (Sear 730 series), reading d N hERACLIUS PP AI. It may be unique to date. Also see the corresponding thread in the general discussion section.
byzcoll
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At first glance this solidus of Leo III looks like a normal Sear 1504 specimen. The obverse legend ending in :Greek_Mu: :V2: :L: :Greek_Delta: places the coin into Füeg's 7.D series, minted in 735/736 AD.
However the reverse legend ending in :Tcurl: :Greek_Iota: :Greek_Nu: :V2: :dash: :S: with an apostrophe is unlisted.
Reverse legends in this series either end with a plain :Greek_Nu: :V2: :S: (7.D.1) or with greek numbering, i.e. :Greek_Nu: :V2: :Greek_Alpha:, :Greek_Nu: :V2: :Greek_Beta:, :Greek_Nu: :V2: :Greek_Zeta:, :Greek_Nu: :V2: :Greek_Theta:, :Greek_Nu: :V2: :S: :Greek_Iota: or :Greek_Nu: :V2: :Greek_Iota:. The meaning of the numbers is not known.
My guess: In light of this numbering system the apostrophe in the "new" reverse may indicate, that in this case the :S: is meant as number 6 and not as the last letter of the name.
byzcoll
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Iustinianus 8-nummium, Thessalonica mint.
:Greek_Alpha: :dot: :Greek_Iota: :Greek_omega_small: above :Greek_Eta:
Unlisted variety presented in this forum some time ago by W. Leimenstoll.
tk
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Recenlty I found on e-bay this one:
Heraclius half follis Thessalonica mint Sear 828.
Heraclius on the normal coin wears a helmet with cross (similar to the one on the coin posted by Byzcoll three posts above this one).
Here, as you can see, Heraclius wears a crown with trefoil ornament which was not recorded thus far.
tk
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Late in the reign of Constans II his sons Heraclius and Tiberius were intoduced on the reverse of the solidi. The early issues (Sear 962) show a plain cross on a globe and Heraclius on the left and Tiberius on the right. Heraclius is always depicted larger than Tiberius which made a legend break neccessary: VICTORI - A
However, the coin shown on the top picture is different: Heraclius and Tiberius are of equal small size. Thus, there is no legend break: VICTORIA.
I believe that this coin represents the very first emission of the four-emperors type while Heraclius was enlarged soon afterwards. I have not seen any similar example in the literature (Sear, MIB, BNP) or in databases (acsearch). It seems to be unique or extremely rare.
byzcoll
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I found another one of these odd Leo VI folles with the AC in the left field. Antvwala found the first one and posted it in this thread in 2008:
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=50101.0
Then I found a die match in October 2009 and posted it in the same thread. This week I found a third coin. All three were struck with the same dies, which leads me to believe that there was probably only one die. Maybe a special issue for the coronation of Constantine VII (AC= Alexander and Constantine as the joint emperors???).
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This half tremissis of Justinian I seems to be unpublished. Apparently it is struck with normal tremissis dies. Weight is 0.79 g. Details can be found on acsearch (ID=52557).
Overall, half tremisses are only known from a few examples across the 6th and 7th century. A very unusual denomination.
byzcoll
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A recent auction featured this unique and previously unknown light-weight solidus of 23 Siliquae of Leontius, Constantinople mint. Weight is 4.16 g. The star on the reverse indicates the reduced denomination and is in the style of 23 Siliquae issues from the late Constans II on.
byzcoll
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This solidus of Constantine VI with Irene is up for auction in January 2012. It is based on the type Sear 1593 - Füeg 2/3, but with a new obverse legend.
Description by the auction house:
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Constantine VI, Irene and Leo III. 780-797 AD. Solidus, 4.46g. (6h). Constantinople, 787-790 AD. Obv: COnSTAnS IRINA (N retrograde) A - VS Facing busts of Constantine VI, beardless (on left) and Irene (on right), both crowned and with cross and central pellet between their heads; each holds globus cruciger, Irene also holds cruciform scepter. Rx: COnS - TAnOS - C' Γ' AVS Leo III, Constantine V, and Leo IV seated facing, each wearing crown. Not in the standard references, Fueg, DO, Paris, Berk, or Sear. Extremely rare, possibly only the second specimen recorded. Some areas of weak striking. EF.
Solidi of this joint reign normally name Constantine VI on one side of the coin and Irene, sometimes called Mother of the Augustus, on the other side. Our coin, in contrast, names both Constantine and Irene on the obverse, and then Constantine again on the reverse.
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Please note, that the deciphering of the legends by the auction house is flawed, they actually read:
Obverse: :C: :Greek_Omicron: :N: :S: :Tcurl: :Greek_Lambda: :N: ' :S: ' :Greek_Iota: :R: :Greek_Iota: ' :Greek_Lambda: :Greek_Gamma: :Greek_Omicron: :Greek_Upsilon_2: :S:
meaning Constantine with Irene "Augusta" (Constantinos syn Irini Agousti)
Reverse: :C: :Greek_Omicron: :N: :S: :Tcurl: :Greek_Lambda: :N: :Greek_Omicron: :S: :C: ' :Greek_Gamma: ' :N: :Greek_Omicron: :S:
meaning: Constantine "Caesar" our King (Constantinos Caesar Basileus Noster), Note that the single :Greek_Gamma: in the legend is a spelling error and should be :B:
An interesting coin, which demonstrates the ongoing struggle for power between Constantine VI and his mother Irene. In the end Irene got rid of her son and became sole empress over the empire. She then tried to buy the favor of the people by generous gifts, which threatened to ruin the finances of the state. Also, the coronation of Charles the Great proclaming him as the legal Caesar inheriting the Roman empire by the pope in Rome fell into her reign. She finally was deposed and banished in 802.
The coin also shows that the sloppy engraving of the legends in the series causes problems to decipher their exact meaning even for renowned auction houses.
byzcoll
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Reverse: :C: :Greek_Omicron: :N: :S: :Tcurl: :Greek_Lambda: :N: :Greek_Omicron: :S: :C: ' :Greek_Gamma: ' :N: :Greek_Omicron: :S:
meaning: Constantine "Caesar" our King (Constantinos Caesar Basileus Noster), Note that the single :Greek_Gamma: in the legend is a spelling error and should be :B:
Hi byzcoll,
Could one not also read the Γ• as D• (for Dominus), or is there a compelling reason to prefer :B:?
Bill R
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Hi Bill,
the main reason to prefer b is that it is always b on related dies.
Actually the coin is struck from die version C2.12 in Füegs great work on the corpus of nomismata of the time. Interestingly, only one die of this version is known from two specimens (British Museum and an NAC auction in 1997) and Füeg reads the letter as a b, although it is apparantly a :Greek_Gamma: (or maybe even a tilted :Greek_Lambda: or :Greek_Delta:?). This probably has escaped Füeg's attention, may be because the available photos were too small.
Furthermore on other dies there is usually a :Greek_Delta: in the place of :N: :Greek_Omicron: :S: . The :Greek_Delta: stands for Despotes. Thus Füeg suggests that the die could be read :Greek_Delta: :Greek_Omicron: :S: but he puts a questionmark on that because the context does not make sense. I think basileus noster can be reasonable. If :Greek_Gamma: is a tilted :Greek_Lambda: which is used for :Greek_Alpha: in these inscriptions it could even be augustus noster, but that is also an unusual title. (And :Greek_Gamma: standing for :Greek_Delta: would make it despotes noster.)
These inscriptions surely can be tough to interprete.
The coin above seems to be the third specimen from that reverse die.
byzcoll
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This is an apparently unpublished and unique variety of a silver histamenon of Alexius I, Constantinople mint. Sold by FORVM.
It resembles the type Sear 1893, but Alexius is holding a scepter with three cross bars at the top instead of a scepter with a star on top.
byzcoll
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This fall two sepcimens of a new variety of a silver histamenon of Alexius I, Constantinople mint, have been offered at auction in Munich, Germany.
They are similar to the type Sear 1893, but the emperor holds a scepter in the shape of a simple cross instead of a sceptre with a star on top.
byzcoll
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A few specimens of this (still) unpublished histamena of Alexius I have appeared on the market over a period of at least 12 years.
They have been recorded as electrum as well as silver coins. I could not find a note on the diameter, but the compact appearance would argue for the mint of Thessalonica.
On the obverse Christ is seated on a throne without a back. He is flanked by two crescents and the inscription :overlineIC: - :overlineXC:
On the reverse the emperor holding an akakia and a plain globe is blessed by a manus dei. Alexius is flanked by two stars. The legend reads
:plus: :Greek_Alpha: :Greek_Lambda: :Greek_Chi: :Greek_Iota: :Greek_omega_small: :Greek_Delta: :Greek_epsilon: :C: :Greek_Pi: :Greek_Omicron: :Greek_Tau: :S:
Found on acsearch.
byzcoll
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This fall two sepcimens of a new variety of a silver histamenon of Alexius I, Constantinople mint, have been offered at auction in Munich, Germany.
They are similar to the type Sear 1893, but the emperor holds a scepter in the shape of a simple cross instead of a sceptre with a star on top.
byzcoll
Dear byzcoll,
this Alexius I coin type has been published by Mr. Bendall :
Bendall, Simon. Two Rare Byzantine Coins of the Comnenan Dynasty. Numismatic Circular, October 2001
The type is included in
Catalogue of the Late Byzantine coins, vol. I (October 2011) , with number 1.1.2.
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A few specimens of this (still) unpublished histamena of Alexius I have appeared on the market over a period of at least 12 years.
They have been recorded as electrum as well as silver coins. I could not find a note on the diameter, but the compact appearance would argue for the mint of Thessalonica.
On the obverse Christ is seated on a throne without a back. He is flanked by two crescents and the inscription :overlineIC: - :overlineXC:
On the reverse the emperor holding an akakia and a plain globe is blessed by a manus dei. Alexius is flanked by two stars. The legend reads
:plus: :Greek_Alpha: :Greek_Lambda: :Greek_Chi: :Greek_Iota: :Greek_omega_small: :Greek_Delta: :Greek_epsilon: :C: :Greek_Pi: :Greek_Omicron: :Greek_Tau: :S:
Found on acsearch.
byzcoll
This new histamenin also have been noted by Bendall and now is included in
Catalogue of the Byzantine Coins, vol. I, under number 1.1.4.
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Thanks for the information. I guess I need to order a copy of your book! :)
byzcoll
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:) :) :)
I believe it's a good Christmas present :))))
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I found another one of these odd Leo VI folles with the AC in the left field. Antvwala found the first one and posted it in this thread in 2008:
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=50101.0
Then I found a die match in October 2009 and posted it in the same thread. This week I found a third coin. All three were struck with the same dies, which leads me to believe that there was probably only one die. Maybe a special issue for the coronation of Constantine VII (AC= Alexander and Constantine as the joint emperors???).
AC stands for: :Greek_Alpha: :Greek_Upsilon: :Greek_Tau: :Greek_Omicron: :Greek_Kappa: :Greek_Rho: :Greek_Alpha: :Greek_Tau: :Greek_Omicron: :Greek_Rho: :Greek_Omicron: :C:
Which means: Emperor
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I don't recall AC being used to abbreviate Autokrator. It doesn't seem likely.
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Would C have been a capital sigma at this period? If so, it would be AS.
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Not correct.
Many ortodox icons still use the C during this period.
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Hello!
It's my first post, so , maybe I'm wrong...
I have this coin in my collection and I have a problem: looks like Sear 805 but with RY 2. In Sear are listed only starting with third RY.
Can you help me?
Thank you.
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Again, as in a previous post of mine some days ago, I present a coin which of course does not officially exist.
Barbaric hybrid of Anastasius follis from Antioch (presumably...) with a reverse resembling Iustinianus follis.
tk
I believe this to be an example of a coinage struck in Antioch during the Persian occupation of the city 540-542. My initial findings were published in the Journal of the Oriental Numismatic Society (JONS) no. 207 (2011) and there was a follow up article in JONS 216 (2013).
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Here is one
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Here is one
Please identify and describe the coin.
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Okay something new for the unlisted board. I have never seen an imitation like it before.
It is in a very crude style. I recently won it at auction. It looks like it is from a much earlier time period but in hand it feels like a very flat tetarteron.
Manuel I. Komnenos, 1143-1180 AE-Tetarteron lokaler Beischlag Vs.: Kaiser steht mit Krone, Langkreuz und Kreuzglobus v. v., Rs.: Kreuzmonogramm wohl unpubliziert; vgl. Sear 1979; DOC 22. 2.57 g. RR breit, schwarze Patina, ss-vz
Bellow it is is an official example. SBCV-1979
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beautiful,
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I have the coin of Theodosius I (379-395) on the castle there is a cross. In my coin there is a β. I have not seen any other such plan
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Perhaps a staurogram (a rho-headed cross) not a beta?
Bill R.
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I agree with Bill, nice find btw.
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Hello dear collectors!I wont to show my coin,according to the Sear 777 catalog,but i just didnt find any auctions or fotos anywhere!I ask you to express your opinion,sort by rarity and,if possible by price.Thanks
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Hello Flip
welcome!
We do not discuss prices.
not sure about your coin.
CW
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Hello Flip
welcome!
We do not discuss prices.
not sure about your coin.
CW
Thanks for your opinion!But i am 100% sure of authenticity!!!There is such a copy in the Hermitage # 160
Does anyone have such a coin?
With respect
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I was not questioning the authenticity of your coin one way or the other.
I am not familiar with that series.
Cw
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I was not questioning the authenticity of your coin one way or the other.
I am not familiar with that series.
Cw
In any case, there is no photograph of this coin anywhere, including Sear, and it might be interesting for anyone to look at such a specimen.