12,000 year old structure unearthed in Turkey!

[Akropolis]

Check out 12,000-year-old unexplained structure.

Click here: http://www.wimp.com/unexplainedstructure/

Human history to be re-written?

PeteB

[Randygeki(h2)]

Pretty neat stuff. Its funny how the only history channel program (that I've seen) that shows places like this is Ancient Aliens, with speakers like Linda Moulton Howell and Philip Coppens.

[Mark Z]

Pete,

Nice video. Thanks for that. I had not heard about it.

More here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gobleki_Tepe

I'm guessing that there are probably more of these kinds of sites scattered around the ancient world. It's just that they have not been discovered yet.

mz

[mix_val]

Check out 12,000-year-old unexplained structure.

Click here: http://www.wimp.com/unexplainedstructure/

Human history to be re-written?

PeteB

National Geographic wrote this up a while back.  Very interesting and important discovery but the technology was still primitive and hardly due to aliens 

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/06/gobekli-tepe/mann-text

[slokind]

I want parallels.  It is too big for a Kurdish shepherd to have made it, sure enough.  Since I know nothing more, I won't pronounce.  I can say, though, that I have never seen a more toxic video.
Pat L.

[cicerokid]

Lots of really interesting really ancient sites in Turkey. Catel Hyuk comes immediately to mind, where houses were entered from the roof tops amongst many interesting things including a "landscape" painting of the locality.

Sadly nothing of this type of archaeology is shown on English terrestrial TV and I somewhat distrust Nat Geog and the History Channel.

Anything about aliens alienates me.

[SC]

Wow!  That's all I can say.

Wow.  What a fascinating find (read the wikipedia article).  If the interpretation of the German archeological team as to dating stands the test of time (no pun intended) then it will indeed serve to re-write early neolithic/proto-neolithic history.  It is great that the site was buried and abandoned.  Other sites of nearly similar antiquity - like Jericho - have lost so much from their earliest stages due to continuous inhabitation.  What fascinates me is when you compare the age of the site to the fact that the maximum extent of glaciation in the last period of glaciation was around 16,000 BC with the last period of glaciation only ending around 10,500 BC!  Time to go re-read the Prolegomena of the Cambridge Ancient History series.

And wow, what leaps of (over / beyond) logic in the video!  "Hey, here's a very old site.  And they have carvings of animals.  And Mt. Ararat is in the same modern country.  And ice melts.  So this must be proof of the Flood!"  Sad.  I note the video says "hey - look, no tools found yet, none at all".  Leaving the implications up to the viewer.  (Cue the aliens!)  However, the wiki article says that the stones were likely cut with flint tools of which very many were found....

Shawn

[Optimo Principi]

Gobekli Tepe is a well documented site; there is alot of good information out there regarding its discovery and excavation by Klaus Shmidt, but it has been criminally under publicised. It is not an exaggeration to describe it as probably the most significant archaeological find of the last century. The smaller and slightly younger site of Nevalı Çori nearby was previously known about but the systematic excavation of the layers of Gobekli Tepe have given us an unparalleled insight into the beginnings of human society.

It rewrites the history books to a certain extent as the generally accepted progression of Hunter Gatherers>Agriculture>Settlement>Cities>Religion now needs serious reconsideration. The fact that Neolithic hunter gatherers possessed the resources, ingenuity and motivation to construct such a massive series of monuments is earth shattering to the archaeological field. The anthropomorphic monoliths and intricate animal carvings attest to a sophisticated culture far beyond what we would expect for the era. Perhaps most importantly, it places Religion (Gobekli Tepe is undoubtedly a religious site in some form) as a motivating factor in our coming together rather than a resultant one.

[Constantine IV]

Looks to be a trully amazing site.
The style, using megaliths as columns, with smaller masonry for the walls, is similar to Tiwanaku in Bolivia.
Another site that was thought to date back 12,000 years. I wonder however if the use of carbon dating misleads us. Sure, the ground material could have a 12,000 year old origin but can it really represent the date of the construction of the site?

It is a shame they took what seemed to them the "logical route" to link it with the Noah's Ark story, as it was looking like the unique animal motifs on each megalith were a type of Zodiac representation.

Whilst on the subject of mount Ararat, the mountain referred to as "Mount Ararat" by Westerners and Diasporan Armenians, alas, was never called Mount Ararat until the Christianisation of the kingdom of Armenia. That mountain was originally called "Azad Masis", a name that derives from an Avestan title "Yazata Mazista" which meant "the Venerable, the Great". I wrote an article about this, as a result of research I was doing for an Armenian history exam, see here: http://musingsofthemasis.blogspot.co.uk/2012/01/why-mount-massis-is-not-mount-ararat.html
Despite that, the original Mount Ararat, was in the locality of Gobekli Tepe.

[Robert_Brenchley]

Apparently it was named 'Ararat' because of pre-existing tradition that it was where Noah's Ark came ashore, which can only be dated to the 11th-1th Century. Not much of a historical basis!

[Steff V]

Civilizations destroyed by floods? No doubt. But are there really people that believe in the ark of Noah?   

[Constantine IV]

Apparently it was named 'Ararat' because of pre-existing tradition that it was where Noah's Ark came ashore, which can only be dated to the 11th-1th Century. Not much of a historical basis!

Well, the real mount Ararat, now called Mount Judi, in Islam is believed to be the mountain that Noah's ark settled upon.
That mountain's name may derive from the fact that the region was the homeland of the Urartuan dynasty, who were neighbours of the Assyrians to the south.
Whilst the mountain that is today refered to as "Ararat" is far from the heartland of Assyria in a region only conquered by the Urartuan dynasty much later.
Ironically local Armenians in the Republic of Armenia still refer to "Ararat" as Masis and the smaller summit as Sis, it is only the Diasporan Armenians who call it "Ararat".

[Constantine IV]

12,000 years, exactly (!) does seem far fetched.
To the south-west of Gobekli Tepe, across the Euphrates in Syria, is the site of Ain Dara.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ain_Dara_temple
Not of the same style as Gobekli Tepe, but uses Animal motifs, and does not date back "12,000" years, but a mere 3,300.

[Constantine IV]

A BBC2 program that started last Wednesday, called "Divine Women" and presented by Bettany Hughes, visited Gobekli Tepe, and it was stated as being 10,000 years old.

[Robert_Brenchley]

Ain Dara is a typical Iron Age Near Eastern temple, quite unlike Gobekli Tepe.

[SC]

According to the wikipedia article the earliest carbon dating - from Layer III in the PPN-A (Pre-Pottery Neolithic period A) yeilds a corrected figure of approximately 9000 BC (thus 11,000 years old).  Later on the article notes that use of the site might have begun 2000 years prior to those dates.  While the site did not spring into existance immediately the monolithic T-shaped pilars are dated to Period III hence roughly 9000-8800 BC.  The article also notes that the backfill of the site is dated to circa 8000 BC.  However, unlike the media articles and the silly video - which imply that the site was suddenly backfilled and abandoned - the wiki article explains how the site was developed in a concentric fashion circa 9000-8000 BC.  Although it does not explicitly say so it seems to imply it might have been filled up - or at least got very crowded - prior to this final in-filling of dirt and "abandonment".

In terms of dating one should note that according to the latest research Jerico circa 9600 BC had more than 70 clay and straw dwellings, a population estimated at 1000, a 3.6 meter high and 1.8 meter wide wall and a monumental 3.6 meter high stone tower.  The stone structures would have required and esitmated 10,000 man-days of labour. 

So while very interesting, Gobekli Tepe would not necessarily win the title of Wonder of the World on the cover of the 9000 BC issue of Time magazine.  Cool pillars versus big tower - cast your votes now....

What is most interesting about Gobekli Tepe is the art - the low and high relief on the pillars.  While I have not seen any indiciation that they are fake I would at least hope there is signficant investigation of that possibility - if only to rule it out.  Anyone who knows anything about ancient artifacts knows that adding art - plastic or other - to otherwise unadorned items has been a stable of counterfeiters and con-men for centuries.  It is also possible the decoration was added long after original construction.  On the other had if it was all buried circa 8000 BC....  In any even I don't want to cast doubt on the authenticity - I would just like to hear that experts have discussed that possibility and reached a decision.

Shawn

[Constantine IV]

Ain Dara is a typical Iron Age Near Eastern temple, quite unlike Gobekli Tepe.

I recall a BBC 4 program from last year, presented by Dr Francesca Stavrakopoulou, were Ain Dara was cited as a model for the Temple of Solomon due to the similarity of its layout.

[Robert_Brenchley]

I'd forgotten the name, but realised as soon as I read about the carved giant footprints, which feature rather memorably in the programme. The First Temple was pretty typical of Ancient Near Eastern temples of the time, if the description in 1 Kings is anything to go by, and there's no reason to assume it isn't.