Classical Numismatics Discussion
  Welcome Guest. Please login or register. 10% Off Store-Wide Sale Until 2 April!!! Explore Our Website And Find Joy In The History, Numismatics, Art, Mythology, And Geography Of Coins!!! Expert Authentication - Accurate Descriptions - Reasonable Prices - Coins From Under $10 To Museum Quality Rarities Welcome Guest. Please login or register. 10% Off Store-Wide Sale Until 2 April!!! Explore Our Website And Find Joy In The History, Numismatics, Art, Mythology, And Geography Of Coins!!! Support Our Efforts To Serve The Classical Numismatics Community - Shop At Forum Ancient Coins

New & Reduced


Author Topic: RIC versus Sear Five Volumes  (Read 1128 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Virgil H

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1404
RIC versus Sear Five Volumes
« on: March 16, 2022, 09:39:01 pm »
Hi all,
I like hard copy coin references. Lately, my main concern has been getting Hoover's Greek Coin volumes, not inexpensive, but doable, I have three volumes so far and there are a couple more at least that I want, I buy one every month or so. I also have a few other more specialized books, such as van Haaff's Coins of Elymais. I am just getting into Roman coins and, to be honest, while I like them, I am not sure how far I will go with them. I tend to buy coins based on what I like that fits my pretty low budget. Late Roman bronzes fit my budget often. And, perhaps unfortunately, my collecting interests are very wide and I have realized that will probably never change, although I do some specializations that I would call minor, but I am actually all over the place in terms of interests. I have come to terms with that.

So, my question here is, for Roman coins, do I have to have RIC volumes? Or, is the Sears five volume work any good and relevant? Or, do I just rely on online sources like OCRE, which actually seems not a bad way to go. I have the two Sear volumes that cover Roman Empire and Greek Imperial. I find all the Sear books, including the Greek ones I have, very lacking in specifics. Maybe the multi-volume Roman series is better. All I know is I cannot afford RIC. One volume for me is six months of coin budget and I am just not willing to sacrifice the coin for the book in this case (and I spend quite a bit on books). I could see getting the Sear books, I can't see getting RIC at this point when I am on a severe budget for any purchases related to my coin collecting, especially with inflation worse than most people alive today have ever seen and I personally remember such inflation in late 70s-early 80s. It is crazy how much inflation is affecting me, I had forgotten how bad it could be if you were a wage worker or on a fixed income.

What do you think?

Offline Jay GT4

  • Tribunus Plebis 2021
  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 6987
  • Leave the gun, take the Canoli!
Re: RIC versus Sear Five Volumes
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2022, 09:54:17 pm »
I bought the Sear millenial first, which I used all the time.  Then I got the others,  but to be honest I haven't really used them.  In fact I don't think I've ever cracked open the others. They are brand new sitting on my shelf.  Not because they're not good or useful, but because I bought the Flavian edition of RIC.  I'm focusing on Vespasian and Titus at the moment, so RIC is all I need.  I use RIC every day.  It's just much more in depth than the same passages in Sear.  So, I would say if you're going to specialize, get RIC.  If you have broad interests then Sear is good enough.  The major types are in there. 

Offline Virgil H

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1404
Re: RIC versus Sear Five Volumes
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2022, 10:20:09 pm »
Thanks Jay, I suspected that answer. My problem is I am not specialized enough. I keep thinking I will do that, but it hasn't happened in terms of specializing. But, Roman coins are a new thing for me, I have always been more focused on Greek.

Thanks,
Virgil

Offline DzikiZdeb

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1975
Re: RIC versus Sear Five Volumes
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2022, 03:00:37 am »
It seems to me that if you do not want to specialize in a certain period of time, on-line sources - OCRE or wildwinds - are enough for you. The problem with Sear is that sooner or later you'll come across a coin that you won't find there. Of course, you can treat it as a good book about Roman coinage in general, but with this approach it is better to buy some old, one-volume edition (II-IV). They're cheap and readily available - you'll spend $ 10-20 instead of $ 300 for the five-volume millennium edition.

Offline Lech Stępniewski

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 2900
    • NOT IN RIC
Re: RIC versus Sear Five Volumes
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2022, 09:17:17 am »
buy some old, one-volume edition (II-IV).

Also old Van Meter will do quite well - as a general overview of Roman coinage.

And as for the RIC. I don't want to encourage you for something illegal but there are scans of RIC (old editions). You can at least look at them, treating this like browsing through a book in a bookstore. Then you will know if you need this level of detail at all.
Lech Stępniewski
NOT IN RIC
Poland

Offline Virgil H

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1404
Re: RIC versus Sear Five Volumes
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2022, 05:27:52 pm »
To all who have replied,
I have never run across the RIC pdfs and I think for now I am fine with what I am using. I find van Meter and the Sear one volume (I also have his one volume Greek Imperial), as well as Shawn's book, all useful. They just don't take things down to the absolute specifics as it seem RIC does. I found an semi-affordable RIC VIII, but RIC X is just out of sight price wise and that surprises me because it is relatively new. I can't even find RIC IX. I like to get as specific as possible, but wildwinds and OCRE are always helpful. After I get through this lot of late Roman coins I bought, I will see how I feel about specializing in some areas. These coins are pretty diverse and enjoyable since everything is pretty new to me and the lot I got has coins mostly in VF and better condition, so I can read them fairly well and they look good on the whole.

Thanks for all the great comments.

Virgil

Offline Ron C2

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1055
  • Qvod perierat adhvc exstat nvmmorvm
Re: RIC versus Sear Five Volumes
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2022, 05:45:54 pm »
Thanks Jay, I suspected that answer. My problem is I am not specialized enough. I keep thinking I will do that, but it hasn't happened in terms of specializing. But, Roman coins are a new thing for me, I have always been more focused on Greek.

Thanks,
Virgil

RIC is superior to anything else when it comes to Roman coins.  FWIW, some halfway decent scans of RIC can be downloaded for free on z-lib.org

I own the physical books, which is superior.

My Ancient Coin Gallery: Click here

R. Cormier, Ottawa

Offline Dominic T

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 781
Re: RIC versus Sear Five Volumes
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2022, 05:58:35 pm »
Ron, are you sure Z-Library is legal ? I don’t believe they respect the copyrights laws.
DT

Offline Ron C2

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1055
  • Qvod perierat adhvc exstat nvmmorvm
Re: RIC versus Sear Five Volumes
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2022, 06:25:09 pm »
I honestly don't know if they are or not. I have the hard copies personally.
My Ancient Coin Gallery: Click here

R. Cormier, Ottawa

Offline SC

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 6068
    • A Handbook of Late Roman Bronze Coin Types 324-395.
Re: RIC versus Sear Five Volumes
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2022, 07:03:44 pm »
One important question is what do you want the book for?

Identify coins?
Catalogue/attribute coins?
Understand the coinage of an Emperor, period or mint?

For identifying coins the internet is often the best.  There are exceptions.  Alistair Menzies Late Roman Bronze Coinage: An attribution guide for poorly preserved coinage (a translation of Guido Bruck's 1960s german book) is great for worn late Roman bronzes.  I find that for second century bronzes I use my two volumes of BMC (III and IV) as they are much better illustrated than the RIC volumes - with the exception of the new RIC.II.3 for Hadrian.

For cataloguing online like OCRE and Wildwinds are good but they don't know always allow you to ensure you have the right RIC number.  For late Roman bronzes Carson, Hill and Kent's LRBC is a good cheap alternative to RIC.

But books are invaluable if you truly want to understand the coinage - though as you note one can't afford to do that for every coinage type/period/culture.

SC
SC
(Shawn Caza, Ottawa)

Offline Virgil H

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1404
Re: RIC versus Sear Five Volumes
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2022, 07:36:48 pm »
I personally respect copyright, so I do not look for illegal pdfs. Not to mention that most of the time accessing such files gets you major viruses. And I will admit I used Napster back in the day, so I am no saint. But, the Internet has changed to the point I have abandoned social media because it is a toxic mess. I stopped using bittorrent for even legal things because there are nothing but viruses years ago. The days of Napster have been gone, much to my amazement, over 20 years. I want the best attributions I can get is my purpose. Like in an example I posted before, RIC IX 26 B was not enough, I wanted the 26B(1) and 26B(2), etc. I just can't afford RIC, so I am not going to worry about it any longer. I will keep building my HGC Greek books because the Romans are kind of a new thing for me.

Cheers,
Virgil

Offline Victor C

  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 811
  • all my best friends are dead Romans
    • Constantine the Great
Re: RIC versus Sear Five Volumes
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2022, 10:22:36 pm »
For identifying coins the internet is often the best.  There are exceptions...Guido Bruck

http://www.tesorillo.com/aes/home.htm

Victor Clark

LRB gallery

Offline Ron C2

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1055
  • Qvod perierat adhvc exstat nvmmorvm
Re: RIC versus Sear Five Volumes
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2022, 11:41:29 pm »
I personally respect copyright, so I do not look for illegal pdfs. Not to mention that most of the time accessing such files gets you major viruses. And I will admit I used Napster back in the day, so I am no saint. But, the Internet has changed to the point I have abandoned social media because it is a toxic mess. I stopped using bittorrent for even legal things because there are nothing but viruses years ago. The days of Napster have been gone, much to my amazement, over 20 years. I want the best attributions I can get is my purpose. Like in an example I posted before, RIC IX 26 B was not enough, I wanted the 26B(1) and 26B(2), etc. I just can't afford RIC, so I am not going to worry about it any longer. I will keep building my HGC Greek books because the Romans are kind of a new thing for me.

Cheers,
Virgil

You don't need to buy the whole RIC set - just the one of two books from a period that interests you.  Few collectors own the whole thing.
My Ancient Coin Gallery: Click here

R. Cormier, Ottawa

Offline Virgil H

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1404
Re: RIC versus Sear Five Volumes
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2022, 12:29:15 am »
Ron,
I get that, but I would need at least three because each cover so few years. $500 plus is just more than I can handle. I would rather buy coins, on in these days of inflation, food or gas [REMOVED BY ADMIN]. One Ric is $250 average, that is just not going to happen, I will take OCRE over that. I get a Hoover book every couple months for $65 and now have three. I don't even need all of them, but that is a price point I can deal with and I will get those I need. I have no idea why RIC is so expensive, especially those recently published, but they aren't getting my money. Spink could do print on demand and do well, reprint them and do well, etc. so I feel these books are somewhat on the ridiculous price end of the spectrum and that turns me off. I have stopped even looking for them. All coin books are insanely expensive, but RIC takes the cake.

Virgil

Offline Ron C2

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1055
  • Qvod perierat adhvc exstat nvmmorvm
Re: RIC versus Sear Five Volumes
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2022, 09:54:45 am »
Watch eBay, vcoins, Abe books and forum. I have never paid over $70 for a used RIC volume, and usually much less.
My Ancient Coin Gallery: Click here

R. Cormier, Ottawa

Offline akeady

  • Praetorian
  • **
  • Posts: 24
Re: RIC versus Sear Five Volumes
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2022, 10:37:33 pm »
Spink now offers PDFs of many books, including some RIC volumes - they can be found on spinkbooks.com under e-library.

Interestingly, only volume II.3 is actually available right now as a PDF download from Spink, vol. X and vol. I are "Sold out", an interesting concept for an e-book - presumably the numbers of PDFs sold are limited, to ensure some sales of the dead tree editions.
Last year, I got volume X from Spink for £100 at Coinex last September, so they do sometimes have deals.   Back in 2005, I got RIC vol. IV (new) for £12.50 on the UK Amazon - how and why it was sold for that price, I've no idea, but I told a few others at the time who bought them as well.

As to RIC vs Sear - RIC - the five volume RC&TV falls between two stools for me - it's not comprehensive enough in terms of coins covered and information, but too large to be a low-cost overview.   The two-volume GC&TV is much better from that point of view (though I've also bought into HGC and have 10 of them now - it's great).   I don't much like the GIC book, but the "History and Coinage of the Roman Imperators" is, for me, Sear's best book - very readable and a comprehensive coverage of the late Roman Republic coins and their historical context.

ATB,
Aidan.

Offline Jay GT4

  • Tribunus Plebis 2021
  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 6987
  • Leave the gun, take the Canoli!
Re: RIC versus Sear Five Volumes
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2022, 11:27:38 pm »
I would agree.  Sears Imperator's is fantastic.

Offline helvetica

  • Tribuna Plebis Perpetua
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 1799
  • Helvetia Libera Deo Gratia
    • ID Help pages + RIC lists + www.wildwinds.com
Re: RIC versus Sear Five Volumes
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2022, 11:40:30 am »
If you want only a generic reference number, then Sear will suffice. If you want a precise identification reference, then RIC is a must.

Hunting for a common-ish type in Sear is a nightmare, as he subsorts the coins into sizes, then lists them all with the mint in brackets for the first one only).
RIC - depending on the volume - sorts the coins according to mint (e.g. RIC VI), or according to emperor.
In addition RIC has numerous indices - obverse legend, reverse legend, legend and type, type and legend, mintmarks etc. etc.
Sear's only indices are a bibliography and a list of emperors.

An example: A coin of Galerius from Rome (RIC 73b). R-F across fields, Delta in exergue.

Sear 14362 entry - two lines, "Similar but with obv. Eb and with R-S or R-F instead of R in rev. field. RIC vi pp 359-60, 73b, 93b. C56."
So two utterly different RIC numbers and with "similar" it also means "similar" officina letters in the exergue). No rarity ever is given, only "values" (which often appears to lead sellers astray and ask astronomical prices for common coins.)
(Some Sear entries bundle together up to 10 different RIC entries, which I find very unsatisfactory.)

RIC 73b: Beneath a full description of the reverse image: One line split including officinae columns, rarity rating and where each (officina) coin was seen (mostly museums).
RIC 93b: Beneath a full description of the reverse image: One line split including officinae columns, rarity rating and where each (officina) coin was seen (mostly museums).

And by the way, archive.org has a number of RICs as pdfs, quite official.


Offline Virgil H

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1404
Re: RIC versus Sear Five Volumes
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2022, 06:22:14 pm »
Thank you, Helvetica, thanks for that very informative answer. I have found that Sear books (not including the multi-volume one discussed here) are good, but way more general. I have found this with Greek Coins where HGC is just so much better. I still like my Sear books, but as I have become better and tend to want as specific attributions as possible. I do see their strengths and weaknesses.

Virgil

 

All coins are guaranteed for eternity