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Author Topic: Alexius I Sear 1929 Half Tetarteron? new denomination? for References  (Read 2219 times)

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Offline Nassif

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Hi All;
I post this very Amazing Alexius I Sear 1929 Half Tetarteron?? new denomination?? for References ???
The coin is very thin and light AE 18mm-1,25g-5h
The shape and figures are really very unusual for such coin?
thanks in advance for your help
Regards
Nassif

Offline B*Numis

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Re: Alexius I Sear 1929 Half Tetarteron? new denomination? for References
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2014, 06:22:44 am »
Hi
Yes this seems to be a Sear 1929. The patina and cleaning gives a strange effect.
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Offline Nassif

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Re: Alexius I Sear 1929 Half Tetarteron? new denomination? for References
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2014, 07:16:48 am »
Yes i know  it's Sear 1929,but according to the weight[1,25g] it should be Half Tetarteron ???
regards
Nassif

Offline B*Numis

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Re: Alexius I Sear 1929 Half Tetarteron? new denomination? for References
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2014, 07:22:01 am »
I have studied over 250 coins of this type for my studies. Weights vary hugely. Moreover, it seems that there are more minth than those cited by Hendy or Sear.
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Offline Nassif

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Re: Alexius I Sear 1929 Half Tetarteron? new denomination? for References
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2014, 10:22:47 am »
I am very interested to know how many coins Sear 1929 exactly among your study of 250 coins have weight around 1,2g??because as you know there is Tetarteron & half Tetarteron according to the weight
Regards
Nassif

Offline B*Numis

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Re: Alexius I Sear 1929 Half Tetarteron? new denomination? for References
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2014, 11:06:33 am »
is more complex than that. Personally, I am not defined by tetartétron or half tetarteron. The weight just depends on the minth where is issued the type.
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Offline Nassif

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Re: Alexius I Sear 1929 Half Tetarteron? new denomination? for References
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2014, 11:12:44 am »
I am really interested by your study as i told you and would like to know the weights of 250 coins as Sear 1929 of your study,i guess a lot of members will be interested too to share the information...
Thanks in advance for your contribution
Nassif

Offline B*Numis

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Re: Alexius I Sear 1929 Half Tetarteron? new denomination? for References
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2014, 11:32:11 am »
My study represents many months of work and did not complete. I can not give my stats and results on the forum since my work is to be published. I'm Sorry. :)
For those interested, I publish shortly a piece of my study in the BCEN (Brussel). The extract is about SB 1932 and I propose some re - attributions.
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Offline Nassif

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Re: Alexius I Sear 1929 Half Tetarteron? new denomination? for References
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2014, 11:40:06 am »
I am interested by Alexius I AE coins as i have almost all coins from SB 1929 till 1934 included which is a tetarteron too.I have posted in this section several coins among this list and some still not identified,pls have a look may be you can give me a help
Regards-Merci d'avance de votre aide
Nassif

Offline B*Numis

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Re: Alexius I Sear 1929 Half Tetarteron? new denomination? for References
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2014, 11:47:06 am »
You can send me your picture by email if you want :)
c.wolkow @ gmail.com
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Offline Vladislav D

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Re: Alexius I Sear 1929 Half Tetarteron? new denomination? for References
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2014, 10:52:51 pm »
I'm not sure that this is a SB 1929 . Similar coin https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=45116.msg283054#msg283054


22 mm

Offline Vladislav D

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Re: Alexius I Sear 1929 Half Tetarteron? new denomination? for References
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2014, 11:09:07 pm »
Another one . Similar , but heavier . Both coins was sold by the  seller from Lebanon , where I am sure most is local finds, all Lebanon, Syria farthest .
21 mm.  2.34 g.

Offline B*Numis

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Re: Alexius I Sear 1929 Half Tetarteron? new denomination? for References
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2014, 05:11:28 am »
You are absolutely right for this remark .. I thought that was strange appearance of the patina .. should be a little scrape and clean the coins to be sure.
However, I have an example quite official (a rare scalptor for these references) that looks pretty
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Offline Nassif

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Re: Alexius I Sear 1929 Half Tetarteron? new denomination? for References
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2014, 02:08:25 pm »
thanks Dear members for your contributions but still have same questions:
what's the final attribution of this coin?
with weight 1,25g is that a tetarteron?
Regards
Nassif

Offline B*Numis

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Re: Alexius I Sear 1929 Half Tetarteron? new denomination? for References
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2014, 03:58:34 pm »
Hi Nacif,
 for the second question, the half tetarteron appelation is not accepted by all authors. It's more complex. For the first question .... irregular workshop, imitation ... etc etc
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Offline Simon

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Re: Alexius I Sear 1929 Half Tetarteron? new denomination? for References
« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2014, 09:45:29 am »
 For S-1929 DOC lists 9 examples with weight s running from 1.82gm to 5.10gm and size from 18mm to 22mm  Most of these coins lack any details , all seem to have a very worn appearance lacking any facial details for Christ or Alexius.

The coins issued outside of Constantinople seem to vary in weights, size, design and were issued in the millions, since they lack mint marks and are such a low value that people tended not to hoard them, it seems we will never know where all the mints were located.

I understand that not everyone agrees on the concept of  half tetartera but I believe the work of Hendy and Grierson cannot be dismissed so easily, the work of these academics was life long and rather amazing considering how much they learned and re cataloged compared to the work of the BMC 80 years earlier.

A perfect example of another half tetartera with a huge weight variation was S-1932 with DOC noting 42 examples in their collection  with weights ranging from .59gm to 3.22gm and sizes from 13mm to 18mm.

Was it Inflation or officials taking advantage of their distance from the capital?

It would also be very difficult to me for someone to give me in my change the same coins one very heavy the other very tiny. I personally would not have had allot of confidence in that currency if that happened. How was this handled doing business outside the empire? Do I accept the coin at face value or weight?

By contrast here is my best S-1929 from my collection. Some detail in faces and a bit of an inscription. Weight 4.2gm and size 18/20mm
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=5633 My main collection of Tetartera. Post reform coinage.

Offline Nassif

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Re: Alexius I Sear 1929 Half Tetarteron? new denomination? for References
« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2014, 12:40:19 pm »
Hi All;
In my new collection 2015 i got this other coin described by me as follow:[it was among crusaders coins...]
BYZANTINE EMPIRE-AlexiusI,AE Half Tetarteron?,Very thin & very light-20mm-W:2g-2h-Thessalonica, 1081-1118 AD. IC-[XC] to left and right of nimbate bust of Christ facing/ Crowned bust of Alexius facing, wearing jewelled chlamys, holding cross-tipped sceptre and cross on globe.Very crude style-Not in Sear.no others References... ???
All comments are welcome
Regards
Nassif

Offline Simon

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Re: Alexius I Sear 1929 Half Tetarteron? new denomination? for References
« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2014, 12:48:44 am »
I see some similarities between your coin Nassif and this one from my interesting box.

20.79mm and weight 1.9gm  also like yours VERY thin.

Simon
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=5633 My main collection of Tetartera. Post reform coinage.

Offline Nassif

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Re: Alexius I Sear 1929 Half Tetarteron? new denomination? for References
« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2014, 08:43:20 am »
Very interesting as i still very confused with this issue...
Regards
Nassif

Offline Vladislav D

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Re: Alexius I Sear 1929 Half Tetarteron? new denomination? for References
« Reply #19 on: December 29, 2014, 01:38:00 pm »
I want to note that this coins have on obverse IC - X , instead of IC-XC . Very similar to the coins from my previous post https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=77986.0
Regards ,
Vlad .

Offline Nassif

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Re: Alexius I Sear 1929 Half Tetarteron? new denomination? for References
« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2014, 06:52:14 pm »
Yes very interesting remark Vlad-What's the meaning??I don't think it's somekind of imitation,it looks something regular [or official?]
Regards
Nassif

Offline Simon

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Re: Alexius I Sear 1929 Half Tetarteron? new denomination? for References
« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2014, 07:08:52 pm »
Your coins on the other post have similarities to the cross of s-1931, granted only as a symbol. Almost a stickman version.

The Christ similarities from both coins leads me to think they came from the same place and they were both inspired by Alexius coinage. Granted my conclusion was based on images alone, but being tetartera from different collectors who bought from different dealers we do not have much to go on.

I have had mine for some time and no record where I got it from, I just kept it because it was different and interesting. I also have several different Alexius tetartera that I never believed came from legal mints. S-1930 and S-1932

The original coins these imitations were based on all came from the Thessalonica mint or uncertain Greek mint. However, I have never seen any tetartera from the Constantinople mint ever imitated. Why? Were these Thessalonica imitations authorized by local authority to make up for shortages or were Metropolitan issues just so uncommon to be seen outside the city that they were never imitated?

Also we have seen tetartera imitated of Alexius and Manuel but why not John II? He had a 25 year rule.

If anyone has a John II imitation, or an imitation of a Metropolitan Tetarteron please share.

Nice catch Vlad and Thank You for pointing it out.

Simon
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=5633 My main collection of Tetartera. Post reform coinage.

 

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