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Author Topic: A Crock of Bull(s)  (Read 14055 times)

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Offline Enodia

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A Crock of Bull(s)
« on: December 14, 2014, 10:06:41 pm »
yes, it was only a matter of time.   8)  

so this is the Bull thread. no, no, i mean coins with bulls on them!
the first up is my didrachm from Thuorioi. this was one of my earliest ancient coin purchases, and i still love it. if it wasn't for that scratch in the obverse field...
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-98064

anyway, let's see watcha got!


PS; btw, the proper collective noun for a group of bulls is 'a drove', but that sounded too boring.
besides, i know you guys, so this seemed much more appropriate.    :evil:

Offline ancientone

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Re: A Crock of Bull(s)
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2014, 10:53:00 pm »

Gela, Sicily. AE Tetras, about 420-405. 3.26 g.
Obv: Head of the youthful, horned head of river god Gelas r.; in field l., grain of corn.
Rev: GELAS / Bull with lowered head l., above, olive leaf, in exergue, three pellets. 

Offline n.igma

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Re: A Crock of Bull(s)
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2014, 03:14:36 am »
Time to run with the bulls....

A European bull.... Phliasia, Phlious, 400-350 BC, Æ Dichalkon
A second century bull of Asia Minor .... Mysia, Kyzikos, 2nd-1st century BC, Æ 25
The Indian humped back bull...  Seleukid Kingdom, Seleukos I Nikator, 312-281 BC, Æ 20
and that most elusive of bulls the Man Faced Bull  (MFB).....  Akarnania, Oiniadai,  219-211 BC, Æ 22

And rarest of all ?!.... the Indian Humped Back MFB  ... https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=93364.0


Interestingly the Indian humped back bull only appeared in the iconography of the west (Asia Minor) after the eastern anabasis (307-303 BC) of Seleukos I Nikator.

It is conjectured that Seleukos may have returned from his anabasis with the Indian humped back bull, introducing it to Mesopotamia and Asia Minor for breeding stcok. His coinage of this type (Medusa/ Butting Bull) was produced with the bull in two types, one with the European type bull and the other the Indian humped back bull. To the best of my knowledge no study has been made of this and whether as I suspect there is an east to west progression through his mints of the Indian humped back bull depiction.  In any event this coin type was produced at many mints across the Seleukid Empire in the last years of Seleukos’ reign. The bull on the reverse is an allusion to a story about Seleukos’ prowess related to us in Appian: He (Seleukos) was of such a large and powerful frame that once when a wild bull was brought for sacrifice to Alexander and broke loose from his ropes, Seleukos held him alone, with nothing but his bare hands, for which reason his statues are ornamented with horns.   .....  and that's not a crock of bull!
All historical inquiry is contingent and provisional, and our own prejudices will in due course come under scrutiny by our successors.

Offline Jochen

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Re: A Crock of Bull(s)
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2014, 05:14:41 am »
A zebu from Kibyra:

Phrygia, Kibyra, quasi-autonomous, 1st century AD
AE 17, 2.4g
struck under archiereus Klaud. Biantos in the time of Domitian, 81-96
obv. KIBYRA - TWN
        Bust of Ino, draped and veiled, r.
rev. EPI ARXI - E KLAV BI / ANTOC
       Humbled bull, butting r.
Ref.: BMC 21; Imhoof-Blumer, Kleinasiatische Münzen, 18; Imhoof-Blumer, Griechische Münzen, 657a corr. (wrong obv.
        legend IAL and wrong interpretation as Dionysos)
rare, about VF

This coin shows the rare portrait of Ino. On some coins she is named in the legend.

Best regards

Offline Molinari

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Re: A Crock of Bull(s)
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2014, 09:20:57 am »
and that most elusive of bulls the Man Faced Bull  (MFB)..... Akarnania, Oiniadai,  219-211 BC, Æ 22

That's no mere "bull", n.igma!

Offline benito

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Re: A Crock of Bull(s) Peninsular
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2014, 09:33:54 am »
The greek, the roman ,the iberian.
AE 18. Pantikapaion. c. 2nd - 1st Century B.C. 5.18 grs. Die axis 180o. Head of Pan left / Head of bull left. ΠAN.
 SNG BM 890 - 893. Anokhin 132. SNG Cop 32.
 Ex. Forum Ancient Coins
AR denarius. 81 BC. 3,76 grs. Laureate head of Jupiter right. Behind, K / Europa seated on bull charging left, holding veil which billows overhead. Thunderbolt behind, vine leaf below. L·VL·O·L·F·STRAB in exergue.
 Crawford 377/1. RSC Volteia 6.
AE unit ( AS ). Castulo.  Early 1st.century BC. 12,90 grs. Male head left. L. QVL. F. before. Q. ISC. F behind / Europa seated sideways on bull running right. She extends both her hands, her mantle floating in the wind like a double halo. M. C. F. below.
 SNG BM Spain 1394. Villaronga ,CNH 70
 

Offline Jochen

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Re: A Crock of Bull(s)
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2014, 10:21:35 am »
The bull of Augustus:

Augustus, 27 BC - AD 14
AR - Denar, 3.82g, 18mm
       Lugdunum 15 - 13 BC
obv. AVGVSTVS - DIVI F
        bare head r.
rev.  bull butting l.
        in ex. IMP X
ref. RIC I, 169; C.141
scarce; EF portrait!

The butting bull resembles the famous type of Thurioi. Augustus himself has the nickname Thurinus in his childhood. His ancestors came from Thurioi (Sueton, De vit. Caes. lib. 2, Divus Augustus).
Then the bull reminds on coins from Massilia, is an allusion to Gaul and suggests a mint in Gaul (John Melville Jones, A Dictionary of Roman Coins). Augustus was 16-13  BC in Gaul to reorganize it.

Best regards


Offline Jochen

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Re: A Crock of Bull(s)
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2014, 10:30:13 am »
The bull from Thourioi:

Lukania, Thourioi, ca. 260 BC
AE 18 (Hemiobol), 4.47g
obv. Head of Persephone/Kore, wearing necklace and wreathed with corn-ears, l.
        THOVRIA behind
rev. Bull with head down butting l.
       [PARME? above]
       in ex. fish
ref. SNG Copenhagen 1514 cf.; Laffaille 62 var. (ISTI on rev.)
rare, about VF
From Forum Ancient Coins, thanks!

This rev. was the paradigm of the Augustus denarius RIC I, 169!

Best regards

Offline Jaimelai

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Re: A Crock of Bull(s)
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2014, 01:19:39 am »
Syracuse, Sicily
Reign of Agathocles
317 - 289 B.C.
Bronze AE 16
3.40 gm, 16 mm
Obv.: Head of Kore (Persephone) facing left, hair rolled, wearing earring and necklace, torch (or cornucopia?) behind, ΣΥΡAKOΣIΩN left
Rev.: Bull butting left, dolphin above, O between, exergue line, below NI
Syracuse mint
Sear 1196 var.,
BMC 2 p.194 367,
Calciati 107a var.

Offline Jaimelai

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Re: A Crock of Bull(s)
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2014, 01:25:26 am »
Kolchis, Black Sea
430 -300 B.C.
Silver Hemidrachm
2.23 gm, 11.9 mm
Obv.: Archaic style female head (Artemis Dali) right
Rev.: Head of bull right within linear circle
SNG BM 1013-18;
BMC 13, p.4, 1-5;
Sear 3628

Offline n.igma

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Re: A Crock of Bull(s)
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2014, 02:10:53 am »
A couple of bovine beauties..... A bull and his mate from the twin cities of Kalchedon (Asia Minor) and Byzantion (Europe) respectively that stood astride the southern entrance to the Bosporus.  

The twin cities, 7th century BC foundations of Megara, controlled the vital grain trade from the Black Sea into the Mediterranean.

The grain ear upon which the bull of Kalchedon stands alludes to this fact. That of the dolphin beneath the Heifer of Byzantion is a reflection of the maritime orientation of the city and the bountiful pods of dolphins that even to this day frolic in swift flowing waters of the Bosporus beneath the old city walls.

The twin cities merged in the modern era to become the great and fascinating metropolis of Istanbul.

In my opinion, they make a lovely bovine pair with a remarkable story to tell.... and that's not a load of old bull!


1) Bithynia, Kalchedon, 340-320 BC, AR Siglos
Bull standing left on grain ear, KAΛX above.
Granulated mill-sail incuse square.
SNG BM Black Sea 112; SNG von Aulock 482; Sear 3738.
(18 mm, 5.31 g).
 
2) Thrace, Byzantion, 340-320 BC, AR Siglos
Heifer standing left above dolphin, VΠΥ above.
Incuse square of mill-sail pattern.
SNG BM Black Sea 21; SNG Copenhagen 476; Sear GCV 1579.
(17 mm, 5.36 g)
All historical inquiry is contingent and provisional, and our own prejudices will in due course come under scrutiny by our successors.

Offline Enodia

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Re: A Crock of Bull(s)
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2014, 08:36:42 pm »
yep, lots of prime beef here!

this is one i got last year, under unusual circumstances*. but it ran into some BD problems. after treating it i put the coin in a safe place, and then couldn't find it again for the next 5 months!
treatment is an on-going process (still some bad stuff around the edges), but i think it's a nice enough coin to make it worth the effort...
 https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-106038

* this coin actually belonged, at one time, to the ersatz emperor Napolean of France, probably aquired during his smash tour of Italy. it came down to me through a distant scion of the family, one Sir Dudley H---, who served as aide-de-camp to Wellington at Waterloo. how my grandfather, a seasoned old RAF pilot who flew over North Africa during 'The Big One', ultimately came into posession i cannot say, but when i last saw him on his deathbed he leaned over and with his dying breath whispered to me "Peter, take this coin, which once belonged to Ol' Boney, and treat it with some Gringott's Mix from Forvm Ancient Coins, and let the world share in its beauty!"
needless to say, i was duly moved!

so how could i not post it here?

misty-eyed,
~ Peter


Offline TIF

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Re: A Crock of Bull(s)
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2014, 02:20:02 pm »
1.
PHLIASIA (PELOPONNESOS), Phlius
400-350 BCE

AR obol, 11 mm, 0.84 gm
Obv: forepart of butting bull left
Rev: large Φ surrounded by four pellets
Ref: SNG Copenhagen 8-9
from Triskeles Auctions, Oct. 2013
ex BCD Collection, not in previous BCD sales.  
Handwritten round tag and auction clipping indicates that BCD acquired this coin from Sotheby's, 26-27 May 1976, lot 88, for £55 + 10% VAT



2.
EUBOIA, Eretria
357-267 BCE

AR drachm, 18 mm, 3.1 gm
Obv:  head of nymph Eretria left
Rev:  head of bull facing, fillets from horns, EY above, satyr's head facing in right field
Ref:  Wallace pl. XI, cf 126. 3.08g, 18mm, 11h.
ex Frank James Collection
ex BCD Collection

Very Texan.  (Hook 'Em, Horns!)

And an interesting Greek Imperial:
3.
PHOENICIA, Arados
Trajan. CE 98-117
CY 375 (CE 116/7)

Æ22, 9.65 g
Obv: draped bust of Astarte-Europa right; before, small laureate and draped bust of Trajan
Rev: bull charging left
Reference:  SNG Copenhagen 81; BMC 374

Offline n.igma

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Re: A Crock of Bull(s)
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2014, 03:08:50 pm »
yep, lots of prime beef here!

this is one i got last year, under unusual cercumstances*. but it ran into some BD problems. after treating it i put the coin in a safe place, and then couldn't find it again for the next 5 months!
treatment is an on-going process (still some bad stuff around the edges), but i think it's a nice enough coin to make it worth the effort...
 https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-106038

* this coin actually belonged, at one time, to the ersatz emperor Napolean of France, probably aquired during his smash tour of Italy. it came down to me through a distant scion of the family, one Sir Dudley H---, who served as aide-de-camp to Wellington at Waterloo. how my grandfather, a seasoned old RAF pilot who flew over North Africa during 'The Big One', ultimately came into posession i cannot say, but when i last saw him on his deathbed he leanned over and with his dying breath whispered to me "Peter, take this coin, which once belonged to Ol' Boney, and treat it with some Gringott's Mix from Forvm Ancient Coins, and let the world share in its beauty!"
needless to say, i was duly moved!

so how could i not post it here?

misty-eyed,
~ Peter



You are a master of the art.  ;D

That truly is a prize winning crock of bull that will be hard to beat!
All historical inquiry is contingent and provisional, and our own prejudices will in due course come under scrutiny by our successors.

Offline Andrew McCabe

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Re: A Crock of Bull(s)
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2014, 03:31:52 pm »
Macedonian Bulls (cup) and Republican bulls.

Offline benito

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Re: A Crock of Bull(s)
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2014, 04:01:20 pm »
Beg to disagree.
The macedonian bulls on the cups are more Mycenaean-Minoan  tan Macedonian.

Offline Andrew McCabe

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Re: A Crock of Bull(s)
« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2014, 04:14:26 pm »
Beg to disagree.
The macedonian bulls on the cups are more Mycenaean-Minoan  tan Macedonian.

Oops.

I snapped the photo in Macedonia. To be precise, I found these bulls wandering around Thessalonica. I presumed them to be Macedonian. My error.

Offline n.igma

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Re: A Crock of Bull(s)
« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2014, 11:30:18 pm »
Prompted by Peter's truly prize winning crock of bull that will be hard to beat, I present a truly pedigree bull.  

You've heard of a bull in a china shop, well this was one bull in a brewery......... https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-114865
All historical inquiry is contingent and provisional, and our own prejudices will in due course come under scrutiny by our successors.

Offline Enodia

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Re: A Crock of Bull(s)
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2014, 01:46:37 pm »
this is another coin i bought very cheaply when i was first starting, but it turned out to be quite a find. it was struck in Messana, Sicily under Mamertini rule, and is very scarce. one might even call it "medium-rare", if one had the nerve.   :evil:
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-47263

~ Peter

Offline maridvnvm

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Re: A Crock of Bull(s)
« Reply #19 on: December 23, 2014, 05:43:21 am »
Here is some Welsh beef.

Mysia, Parion, Silver hemidrachm  
  
Obv:– Facing Gorgoneion, surrounded by snakes.
Rev:– PA / RI, bull standing left, looking back right
Minted in Parion, 350 - 300 B.C.
Reference:– BMC Mysia p. 95, 14
2.427g, 13.8mm

Ex-Forvm, Ex-Lanz

Offline maridvnvm

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Re: A Crock of Bull(s)
« Reply #20 on: December 23, 2014, 05:47:16 am »
A couple from of Larissa.

And one from Pharkadon.


Offline Pekka K

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Re: A Crock of Bull(s)
« Reply #21 on: December 27, 2014, 04:35:40 am »

Stampede from Nikaia: Septimius, Domna & Caracalla.
RG348, RG389 & RG473, AE15, 2.0, 2.3 & 2.0g.

Pekka K

Offline Salaethus

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Re: A Crock of Bull(s)
« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2015, 05:32:29 pm »
Here's another nomos of Thourioi.  I'm rather fond of this type

Thourioi, Lucania
AR nomos (20mm, 7.85g)
c. 350-330 BC

O: Head of Athena right, wearing crested Attic helmet decorated with Skylla; Φ on neckguard

R: ΘOΥΡIΩN, Bull butting right; ΘE above, two tunny-fish in exergue

SNG ANS 1078, SNG München 1199

Offline Enodia

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Re: A Crock of Bull(s)
« Reply #23 on: July 18, 2015, 12:30:38 pm »
nice!
i really like the wing helmet motif.

~ Peter

Offline quadrans

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Re: A Crock of Bull(s)
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2015, 11:41:44 am »
I agree nice one .. +++
 Q.
All the Best :), Joe
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