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Author Topic: The multiple Phraates  (Read 606 times)

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Offline Schatz

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The multiple Phraates
« on: October 27, 2010, 11:51:46 am »
Hello out there,

about ten days ago I browsed and came across this Phraates IV posted by a French dealer (pic #1). The little red lamp went on in my head as I had just seen something very similar on Ebay, where a German collector was selling a Phraates drachm which looked very much like it and was clearly marked as a modern forgery (pics ##2 and 3). I sat down to write the obligatory email to the organization asking them to contact the seller, whose email address I could not find, and tell him about my suspicions. Now, my email was very polite, and I did not accuse the seller of any impropriety, I just wanted his attention called to the striking similarity of those two coins. Then another red lamp went on, and I checked my collection where I came across a Phraates IV bought from a dealer in Holland (pic. # 4) long ago. This coin is clearly a forgery, it is much too heavy (5,6 gr and has a ridiculous reverse that would go with an Osroes II). It, too, has the same obv. mold as the other two coins. I just want to have your confirmation that I am not seeing things before I post these three on the Fake Ancient Coin list. For comparison, I am adding a pic of a genuine Sellw. 53/3 which is sold by a different dealer under the roof of the organization(pic #5). Needless to say, I have not heard anything from the organization or the French dealer, but perhaps they need time to digest my alert.


Offline byzcoll

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Re: The multiple Phraates
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2010, 01:30:14 pm »
My impression is that the bird on the fakes is not really like a live animal. It looks more like a beheaded, glazed and grilled chicked. ;D

byzcoll

Offline Robert_Brenchley

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Re: The multiple Phraates
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2010, 03:32:19 pm »
Here's another genuine one (S52) for comparison; the bird here isn't realistic either. The second and third coins are pretty obvious fakes; I'm not sure about the first.
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Offline byzcoll

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Re: The multiple Phraates
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2010, 04:25:53 pm »
The second and third coins are pretty obvious fakes; I'm not sure about the first.

#1 is from the same dies as #2 and #3 and #1 is not the seed for #2 and #3. Yet, #1 shares nicks/scratches with #2 and #3, best seen on the left side of the neckline on the obverse. Thus, if #2 and #3 are fakes, I do not see how #1 could be genuine.

byzcoll

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: The multiple Phraates
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2010, 02:14:01 pm »
The second and third coins are pretty obvious fakes; I'm not sure about the first.

#1 is from the same dies as #2 and #3 and #1 is not the seed for #2 and #3. Yet, #1 shares nicks/scratches with #2 and #3, best seen on the left side of the neckline on the obverse. Thus, if #2 and #3 are fakes, I do not see how #1 could be genuine.

byzcoll

I guess I need some help with circles because I don't see what you mean.
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Offline byzcoll

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Re: The multiple Phraates
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2010, 05:14:41 pm »
Hi,

I have marked the two regions of coin #1, which I think are the most indicative. The left circle marks two nicks/scratches, the right one highlights a hole. These defects are also present on coin #2, but it is difficult to see anything on coin #3, because of the high brightness.

byzcoll

Offline Schatz

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Re: The multiple Phraates
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2010, 12:31:54 pm »

Sorry about the quality of pic #3. It is of my coin, and I just took it quickly and shortly before I launched my post. When I uploaded I realized that I had not changed the image quality on my camera and wound up with these very high megabyte numbers which left me with only one loadable pic. Here is another one, hopefully slightly better.

Incidentally, I just read with amazement in another thread on this discussion board that professional dealers who repeatedly or habitually engage in the sale of tooled or forged coins are untouchable and remain anonymous unless they sell on eBay. Surely there must be a way of warning collectors short of a condemnation on the Fake Dealer list. While I believe that one ought to give the seller the benefit of the doubt as long as possible there should be a limit to this toleration as silence works as encouragement to go on. I am not accusing the seller of coin #1 of anything, but I will certainly have a little red light come on when I look at his offerings again. Any honest seller should welcome serious criticism of his coins. Well, I got distracted ...

Here is the other #3 pic. I find the bottom end of the but so unique, at least I have never seen it on any other Phraates IV.

Thanks for looking,
Schatz

Offline byzcoll

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Re: The multiple Phraates
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2010, 02:32:32 pm »
On the photo it looks as if the low profile parts of the design were almost vanishing in the fields on coin #3.

byzcoll


 

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