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Author Topic: MACEDONIA Chalcidian League  (Read 3868 times)

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gtg702

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MACEDONIA Chalcidian League
« on: March 07, 2010, 03:55:17 am »
hello
MACEDONIA Chalcidian League .I have 2 of this coins can you estimate the price of this coin?

Offline Dapsul

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Re: MACEDONIA Chalcidian League
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2010, 04:15:23 am »
You'll find abundant information about this elsewhere in the net.

Frank

Lloyd Taylor

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Re: MACEDONIA Chalcidian League
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2010, 05:01:32 am »
.....I have 2 of this coins can you estimate the price of this coin?

How do you come by two of these and don't know their worth/price?  Very strange? 

I note the coin type is is commonly faked and a few aspects of the coin in the photo raise suspicions as to authenticity. Both struck and cast fakes are present in the market place.  Forum's database even includes a set of fake dies https://www.forumancientcoins.com/fakes/albums/userpics/19275/normal_5%7E1.JPG (though not a match to this example - unsurprising as the struck fakes originate from several different dies).  More examples can be found in the Forum Fakes database.

Offline archivum

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Re: MACEDONIA Chalcidian League
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2010, 02:14:13 pm »

Both the eye and Omega look wrong to me.
Temper thy haste with sloth -- Taverner / Erasmus.

gtg702

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Re: MACEDONIA Chalcidian League
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2010, 03:42:28 pm »
hello
MACEDONIA Chalcidian League .I have 2 of this coins can you estimate the price of this coin?

I want to know the estimate price of it ,not if is fake or not .If you think that is fake ok but if is not what is the estimate price of it?
 I dont  try or want to sell it to any of  you.
thanks

Offline Robert_Brenchley

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Re: MACEDONIA Chalcidian League
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2010, 03:53:33 pm »
The price would depend on who was selling it and where. There is no fixed price. If you're planning to buy or sell it elsewhere, you shouldn't ask in what's effectively Joe's shop.
Robert Brenchley

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Offline casata137ec

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Re: MACEDONIA Chalcidian League
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2010, 03:59:44 pm »
I know that the poster did not want to know if the coin was authentic or not, but since it's authenticity has been called into question, here we are.

And one more thing, what is that small writing under the lyre on the left?

Chris
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Offline Enodia

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Re: MACEDONIA Chalcidian League
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2010, 06:59:28 pm »
I want to know the estimate price of it, not if is fake or not.

the two are inseparable, as authenticity will have a huge bearing on value. and determining value is not really what we do here anyway.

Quote from: casata137ec
And one more thing, what is that small writing under the lyre on the left?

"Made in Bulgaria"?

~ Peter

Offline Akropolis

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Re: MACEDONIA Chalcidian League
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2010, 07:11:29 pm »
fake, without a doubt.
PeteB

Offline Dino

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Re: MACEDONIA Chalcidian League
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2010, 09:31:00 am »
fake, without a doubt.
PeteB

Pete-

Why do you think that?


GTG-

Could you post pictures of the second coin?

Offline Dino

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Re: MACEDONIA Chalcidian League
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2010, 09:36:02 am »
And one more thing, what is that small writing under the lyre on the left?


On these types, the magistrate's name appears under the lyre/citharra in small letters, so presumably, it's the magistrate's name.

Emanuele Giulianelli

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Re: MACEDONIA Chalcidian League
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2010, 12:49:11 pm »
OT

Vourvourou, Halkidiki :)


gtg702

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Re: MACEDONIA Chalcidian League
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2010, 02:20:05 pm »
fake, without a doubt.
PeteB

Pete-

Why do you think that?


GTG-

Could you post pictures of the second coin?


this is the second one it is smaller with same magistrate's name (I read greek history all day)  ;) the name is  :Greek_Chi:  :Greek_Alpha: :Greek_Rho: :Greek_Kappa:

Offline Akropolis

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Re: MACEDONIA Chalcidian League
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2010, 06:00:11 pm »
On the following coin, notice the magistrates name beneath the kithara: EΠI AΡISTΩNOΣ
"Under Aristonos."

http://www.acsearch.info/record.html?id=61377


There is no "EΠI" preceding "ΧΑΡΚ" under the kithara on your coins, and "ΧΑΡΚ" is meaningless. I have the British Museum catalog and AMNG III for Macedon and there is no such magistrate inscription as yours for coins of Olynthos. Of course, finds made since the BMC catalog and AMNG were issued may have revealed other magistrates names.

Finally, the omega in the name "ΧΑΛΚΙΔΕΩΝ"  on your coin is no omega at all. It looks like an "O" with four spokes emanating from it. The ancient Greeks would not make such a mistake. There is a possibility that the omega resulted from the die engraver cutting the omega upside down, then re-engraving it, which would produce such a result....but I doubt the ancient Greeks would have allowed coins to be struck with such a mistake, whereas a modern engraver might.

Look at all the examples on this site and you will find no such omega....or magistrate "ΧΑΡΚ." You will note that some issues had no magistrate's name at all.

http://www.acsearch.info/search.html?search=olynthos&view_mode=1&en=1&de=1&fr=1&it=1&page=1#0

Sorry, but my opinion remains.

PeteB 

Lloyd Taylor

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Re: MACEDONIA Chalcidian League
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2010, 09:00:09 pm »
Some other aspects that raise suspicion:
1) Apollo wears a laurel wreath, yet on these two examples the wreath at the back of the head includes a tie that is not present on any known authentic examples.  It appears that the person who engraved this obverse did not know the difference between a laureate head and a diademed head and confused elements of both. No ancient Greek engraver would ever have done this.
2) The detail and ornamentation of the lyre is overdone and does not match known authentic examples in its form and detail.
3) The magistrates name beneath the lyre, when present is always centred beneath the lyre on authentic examples, not offset to one side of the centre as appears the case on these examples.
4) The lettering of the legend on authentic examples is of a refined high standard with careful letter placement, yet that on these coins it is crude and misplaced with some letters running into other design elements: not just the omega is wrong, but all letters are suspect when compared to authentic examples of the type. However, the blundered omega is an absolute stand-out error that is completely unknown on authentic examples of the type. Following this the lopsided A is another unknown error on authentic types.

To this I would add that the coins lack certain details of fabric that you would normally see on struck coins.  They have the appearance of being pressed, or centrifugally cast (most likely in my view), rather than struck.   This is based on photo interpretation and detailed physical inspection under magnification is required to confirm the suspicion.

Enough points have been raised to cast some considerable doubt on the authenticity of the coins.  That is not to say they are categorically fake, but the photo evidence points in that direction.  I suggest you take them to a reputable numismatist dealer for a determination of authenticity and thus value if you believe them to be authentic.

Lloyd Taylor

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Re: MACEDONIA Chalcidian League
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2010, 07:56:09 pm »
gtg702 where are you?

You emailed me two weeks back after my initial post/query to say that you father found the coins while working a field. Does this story still stand and what have you determined to do?

Offline mihali84

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Re: MACEDONIA Chalcidian League
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2010, 09:17:45 pm »
I want to know the estimate price of it ,not if is fake or not .If you think that is fake ok but if is not what is the estimate price of it?

The fact that gtg702 was not interested in knowing wether or not the coin was authentic tells me their intentions are not legitimate.  I believe he just wanted to know how much to sell the coin for (as authentic) wether it was fake or not. 

I'm sure we'll see these coins up for sale on the usual site with some story on how they were found in the "family's field" while digging for worms.  ::)
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Lloyd Taylor

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Re: MACEDONIA Chalcidian League
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2010, 02:08:34 am »
I want to know the estimate price of it ,not if is fake or not .If you think that is fake ok but if is not what is the estimate price of it?

The fact that gtg702 was not interested in knowing wether or not the coin was authentic tells me their intentions are not legitimate.  I believe he just wanted to know how much to sell the coin for (as authentic) wether it was fake or not. 

I'm sure we'll see these coins up for sale on the usual site with some story on how they were found in the "family's field" while digging for worms.  ::)

You've got to laugh at the increasing frequency with which recent joiners of the Forum make an initial post of a rare, valuable or or exotic coin seeking validation, authentication and/or price. The typical signs of an attempt to stooge the board include an "exotic" coin posted on the first post of the member, with incomplete details (e.g. missing weights, diameter, or one side image only), no attribution, accompanied by a plea of ignorance on most matters related to either the coin in question or numismatics. I'm sure if validation were to be forthcoming potential buyers would be directed to the thread. I often think some of these people live in hope that Forum members will make them an offer they cannot refuse!

gtg702

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Re: MACEDONIA Chalcidian League
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2010, 04:25:18 am »
I want to know the estimate price of it ,not if is fake or not .If you think that is fake ok but if is not what is the estimate price of it?

The fact that gtg702 was not interested in knowing wether or not the coin was authentic tells me their intentions are not legitimate.  I believe he just wanted to know how much to sell the coin for (as authentic) wether it was fake or not. 

I'm sure we'll see these coins up for sale on the usual site with some story on how they were found in the "family's field" while digging for worms.  ::)

You've got to laugh at the increasing frequency with which recent joiners of the Forum make an initial post of a rare, valuable or or exotic coin seeking validation, authentication and/or price. The typical signs of an attempt to stooge the board include an "exotic" coin posted on the first post of the member, with incomplete details (e.g. missing weights, diameter, or one side image only), no attribution, accompanied by a plea of ignorance on most matters related to either the coin in question or numismatics. I'm sure if validation were to be forthcoming potential buyers would be directed to the thread. I often think some of these people live in hope that Forum members will make them an offer they cannot refuse!


Thank you for your good words but i'm not a fraud and i dont wanna be one . I made my own search in catalogs, museums, etc and there is no such coin listed  so the coins are fake . the  only story that i have about them is the one that my father tell us unfortunately he is not is this world any more so the Answer where or how he found them will remain a mystery. thank for your time  and if you want you can report this coins as  fakes so let the people know .

Offline xintaris75

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Re: MACEDONIA Chalcidian League
« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2010, 09:46:04 am »
Another one fake Olynthos on ebay, 24  mm
14.2 g.
Ω ΖΕΥ, ΠΑΤΕΡ ΖΕΥ,
ΣΟΝ ΜΕΝ ΟΥΡΑΝΟΥ ΚΡΑΤΟΣ.
ΣΥ Δ' ΕΡΓ' ΕΠ' ΑΝΘΡΩΠΩΝ ΟΡΑΪΣ
ΛΕΩΡΓΑ ΚΑΙ ΘΕΜΙΣΤΑ.
ΣΟΙ ΔΕ ΘΗΡΙΩΝ ΥΒΡΙΣ ΤΕ ΚΑΙ ΔΙΚΗ ΜΕΛΕΙ.

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: MACEDONIA Chalcidian League
« Reply #20 on: July 11, 2010, 08:30:19 am »
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