Sidon Mint?

[Karen Russell]

Hi All!

I'm trying to find the exact location of the ancient Phoenician mint in Sidon, Lebanon.  Does anyone know?  Also, does anyone know of any upcoming auctions that would have ancient coins minted there?  My husband and I bought  some coins from the Forum web site, including a gold Alexander which we like very much, but we really don't have a clue what we're doing.  My husband is from Sidon, and he doesn't know anyone who knows where the mint was located, and our research has yielded nothing so far.

Thank You!
Karen

[PtolemAE]

I can't tell you precisely where the mint location was in ancient Sidon (and I don't know if anyone else can, either).  But you can easily get coins produced in ancient Sidon.  Ptolemaic bronzes were minted in Sidon under (at least) Ptolemy II.  There are also Ptolemaic silver coins from Sidon.  In addition there are Seleukid bronzes from Sidon from several rulers including Antiochos IV and at least some others. 

Other ancient coins available from mints in Lebanon would include those from Tyre.  A *lot* of Ptolemaic bronze and silver coins were made at Tyre from the time of Ptolemy I through at least Ptolemy IV.   Some Seleukid coins as well.

Finding ancient coins minted in Lebanon should not be difficult.  You can make some fun out of this by trying to collect all the various issues of different rulers and mint locatioins.  That could be challenging because at least some are likely to be scarce or rare and will take some time to locate.

You can see most of the Sidon and Tyre issues of Ptolemaic bronze coins here:

http://www.ptolemybronze.com

accompanied by some reference information about them if you select the 'view PtolemAE collection' link.

PtolemAE

[SC]

Karen,

Very intersting question.  I wish I knew the answer but I don't.  Please keep us posted on your research.

I tried to find out the same question when I was in Sidon (Sayda).  It is not even clear where the old phoenician era town was.  There are many phoenician era columns used throughout the construction of the medieval castle which sits majestically 100m off-shore of the old market area of Sidon.  However, I was never able to find out if that meant there was a phoenician era construction on the same site or if the columns (and altar) were dragged there from elsewhere.  The fact that there are also many columns visible in the clear waters right beside the castle makes me think there was a phoenician era temple very near there.  The fact the oldest surviving part of Sidon is right on-shore from the castle also makes it likely this was town centre in the phoenician era too.  The fact that medieval buildings still exist might explain why no one has been able to excavate into the older city centre.  (Incidentaly, the best shawarma in the universe can be had from a small shop facing the castle and at the entrance to the souk.)

Land further west (the point extending into the sea) has been oblitered by the port and shipping facilities and I couldn't find out if it was old land built over (meaning there might be ruins lost underneath) or if it was land less than 2000 years old.

Incidentaly, I have yet to learn where the mint was at Tyre (Sur).  There the situation is different as there are two separate areas of exposed ruins.  I understand that the ruins on the southern side of the point south of the medieval town were of the Roman civilian city.  It is likely built over the older phoenician town.  It was originally an island and not a point until the intervening channel was filled in during a seige.  The large ruins slightly inland (east) from the point contains the necropolis, arch and hippodrome and was, at least in part, the Roman military base.

So where was the mint there?  Where did all the famous tetradrachms get made?  Somewhere in the old city overlooking the sea?

Hoping other who know more will chime in.

Shawn
 

[cmcdon0923]

This brings up a question that I've often wondered about.  Has the specific location (building/ruins) of any ancient mint ever been located ??

[SC]

I am pretty sure they know the location of the Temple of Juno Moneta in Rome, the original Roman mint.

The mint in Lugdunum (Lyons)??

Shawn

[Jochen]

Hi Shawn!

Naturally the location of the ancient temple of Moneta is known but that was not the place of the mint! If I'm right the location of the mint in Rome is not exactly known.

Best regards

[PtolemAE]

something tells me that a hellenistic (or even roman) mint would be the last place we should expect to find intact after the passage of almost 2000 years.  after conquest of a city or its destruction by natural disaster one might expect the mint would be the first place looted down to the stone floor.  what other place, except a palace or treasury, would be more appealing to plunderers?  metals and metal-working equipment would be very appealing booty.  without finding the equipment what would we even expect to tell us that a particular location was a mint and not a bakery?  and i suppose we really have no idea if the 'mint of Tyre' or the 'mint at Sidon' even remained at one single location for very long.  while such a discovery could come to pass, i don't expect this information to appear in my lifetime.

PtolemAE

[cmcdon0923]

Certainly nothing would remain intact, but the design of the structure....evidence of metal working/smelting operations, etc....these types of remnants could lead to the assumption that it may have been a mint.

[Steve Minnoch]

Hi Shawn!

Naturally the location of the ancient temple of Moneta is known but that was not the place of the mint! If I'm right the location of the mint in Rome is not exactly known.

Best regards

There is a line in Livy (Livy vi, 20, 13) that indicates it was the site of a mint at the time Livy was writing.

"His house stood where now the temple and mint of Juno Moneta stand, a measure was consequently brought before the people that no patrician should occupy a dwelling within the Citadel or on the Capitoline."

Steve

[Robert_Brenchley]

According to Meshorer, a mint was found in the Tower of David in Jerusalem, but he gives no details.

[Phoenician trader]

At the base of the land castle not far from Murex hill. I haven't been there for over 30 years. But I will try and head over there soon and take some pics for you. Last time I was there, you could still see the melting pit intact. Hope it is still there. That site was a favorite panning site for kids when I was young. You can only imagine why.

[L.C.Sulla]

According to Meshorer, a mint was found in the Tower of David in Jerusalem, but he gives no details.

(It has been long since 2008, but still... )

Meshorer, and others, when referring to a mint facility at the Tower of David only relay on the fact that fragments of a flan moulds were found there. There are no other traces (as far as I know BTW - no where in Israel in general) fora Mint there - no dies and no specific construction or facility that can be recognized as such.   

[Lloyd Taylor]

Many a Greek mint has been identified in excavations e.g. two in Athens - documented in Kroll Agora and one in Halieis documented in McAllister (ed.) Halieis Excavations Vol.1.  More examples and details can be found here https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=79023.0 Unfortunately, the specific location of the mints of Tyre and Sidon are unknown to numismatics and archaeology.

The evidence is that long lived mint operations moved location with time, nothing was static and permanent. No mint has been documented archaeologically at a specific location for more than a specific and limited time. In respect of Hellenistic mint operations  de Callatay remarks in a recent publication titled CONTROL MARKS ON HELLENISTIC ROYAL COINAGES: USE, AND EVOLUTION TOWARD SIMPLIFICATION ?   ... Most Hellenistic coinages were produced on an intermittent basis. Mints (here the word does not even imply the existence of a specific building as in Athens) were more often closed than open.

[WilliamBoyd]

The locations of the Byzantine Constantinople bronze coin and gold coin mints are fairly well known.

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=79844.0

[SC]

And Ferrando makes a case for the location of the Roman mint in Arelate in his recent book.

Shawn