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Author Topic: Common Mistakes for Beginners  (Read 56076 times)

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Offline 77HK77

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Re: Common Mistakes for Beginners
« Reply #25 on: September 09, 2011, 02:29:07 pm »
I’m not sure it is rules you’re actually referring too but rather expectations.

 In golf you cannot reasonably expect to step on the course your first day and hit a hole in one or break the course record, you might get lucky but the odds are against it. However over time you gain skill and expand the level of risk, like pushing a club 10 yards longer than you normally hit for an eagle. One day, many years down the road, you’re surprised when a novice asks your advice

Collecting is the same; keep your expectations (rules) commensurate with the level of skill you have developed and you’ll receive many years of enjoyment; push too fast and you’ll be that guy breaking his club against the golf cart (in the woods twenty yards off the path).

Taking risk can be healthy and profitable but recognize it is just a matter of luck until you develop the right skills to make your own luck. (Like areich buying from shady ebayers)

Biggest mistake – not recognizing how much you need to learn to be really good and not "just lucky".

HK


Offline daverino

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Re: Common Mistakes for Beginners
« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2011, 11:19:31 pm »
I think that the syndrome described above is pretty common - buying coins just for the kick of winning an auction at (you hope) a bargain price or, worse, as an addictive habit. The internet has made it too easy to purchase coins with the click of a mouse and not much thought. When I put a coin in my gallery I try to write a paragraph about it essentially explaining to myself why I bought it. If you can't do that perhaps you should do some reading and research before your next purchase.

Offline crawforde

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Re: Common Mistakes for Beginners
« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2011, 07:53:32 pm »
So what do those of us who cannot choose do?

Offline Dk0311USMC

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Re: Common Mistakes for Beginners
« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2011, 09:12:54 pm »
Then you learn and move on. Everyone needs a few life lessons in everything we do.

Lloyd Taylor

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Re: Common Mistakes for Beginners
« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2011, 09:19:06 pm »
.... the right philosophy.  There's always plenty more coins to obsess over out there. But then that is the problem for the novice collector..... decisions, decisions.

Offline Lucas H

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Re: Common Mistakes for Beginners
« Reply #30 on: October 09, 2011, 01:30:47 pm »
Don't carry valuable coins as pocket pieces to show your friends.  Stick with the lower value variety.

Offline nogoodnicksleft

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Re: Common Mistakes for Beginners
« Reply #31 on: October 21, 2011, 06:26:41 am »
Another thing to be wary of on e-bay and other auction sites are fakes that are snuck in as part of a batch of other items like "metal detecting finds", or "tin of old coins". You may think you will be getting fantastic bargin and then find you receive something else for your black cabinet collection. Usually the photo is a bit blurred (often only one side of the coin is going to be shown) and the description is very general but accurate enough to true (i.e. "Roman to Modern" with the fake coin that you spot falling into modern stuff). In some cases it will be an honest mistake by the seller. However I won one recently where I believe the seller did it intentionally. Ask for additional photos & descriptions, or don't bid to high.

Offline areich

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Re: Common Mistakes for Beginners
« Reply #32 on: October 21, 2011, 06:38:05 am »
Most of the time it is done intentionally, that's a very common trick.
Andreas Reich

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: Common Mistakes for Beginners
« Reply #33 on: October 21, 2011, 06:23:11 pm »
One of the most common mistake beginners make is not understanding the impact of quality (eye appeal) on price.  A superb coin can cost 10x or more the price of an average example of the exact same type.  New collectors tend to think a nice coin is overpriced and think a poor coin is a bargain.  In fact, a nicer more expensive coin may be the real bargain.       
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Re: Common Mistakes for Beginners
« Reply #34 on: October 22, 2011, 10:50:35 am »
I know some have said it's a mistake to go after low-grade cheap coins. It's true that better coins make a better collection, but I see value in acquiring some cheap (perhaps uncleaned) coins early on because it will help you get a feel for things like genuine patinas, wear, fabric, and corrosion... in other words, knowing what is "normal" for a coin that has spent 2000 years underground. Think of it as Ancient Coins 101.

While you're at it, purchase some of the products (like JAX) commonly used to repatinate coins and test them out on some slugs so that you can learn to spot coins that they have been used on. There's some things you just can't learn from a book.

Offline Robert_Brenchley

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Re: Common Mistakes for Beginners
« Reply #35 on: October 22, 2011, 04:26:14 pm »
I spent a few hundred on uncleaned when I was starting; it was money well spent.
Robert Brenchley

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Offline areich

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Re: Common Mistakes for Beginners
« Reply #36 on: January 12, 2012, 12:30:07 pm »
There's nothing wrong with starting cheap as long as you educate yourself first. But if you're going to spend money on fakes, it's better if they're cheap ones. Most coins on Ebay are genuine but those that appeal to new collectors, because they're cheap and of good condition are more often fakes that are cheap because most people know better and don't bid. Just read a lot and look at lots of pictures of genuine coins and you will start to spot the worst fakes very soon.
Andreas Reich

Offline Dk0311USMC

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Re: Common Mistakes for Beginners
« Reply #37 on: January 12, 2012, 03:19:30 pm »
Don't feel like you made a mistake based on what someone else considers a mistake. It's only a mistake if the coins end up being a fraud, or if you feel regret and are unable to appreciate what you are holding in you're hand. If what you bought makes you happy and you are able to learn more about its history, and it then inspires you to expand you're interest in coin collecting, then it may be a fine starter till you find youre collecting nitch.

Basically if it makes you happy then its not a mistake.

Ellen B

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Re: Common Mistakes for Beginners
« Reply #38 on: January 14, 2012, 07:00:35 am »
Thanks for all answers. I have tried to look at coins on this forum that are fakes to learn, but I still think it is very hard to spot them myself. I guess that most of you have many years of collecting acient coins and therefor knows what to look for.  I think maybe that the coins I bought looks to clean and perfect on the surface, so maybe I have bought cheap fakes, hope not.. I will upload pictures on the forum and hope that someone can tell me if they are fakes or not. If they are fakes you'll get another bad seller to the list.  I thought that since the seller had sold alot of coins that he might be trustworty, and i hope that he is.:)
I think that newbies like me think very different from longtime collectors because we just dontknow enough what to look for. I have alot to learn, and I am very glad I found this forum, just wished I had found it before I bought my coins. :)

Offline areich

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Re: Common Mistakes for Beginners
« Reply #39 on: January 14, 2012, 09:01:42 am »
Many sellers that have been selling coins for years still know little about the coins and copy their descriptions (correctly or incorrectly) from somewhere else. It takes a while to spot these sellers. At first, as a new collector, you don't doubt what coin sellers say but after a while you see they're just people and some of them are not very good at what they're doing. What I'm trying to say is if they're fakes the seller doesn't necessarily have to be dishonest, just not very competent. But just because coins are very well-preserved doesn't mean they have to be fakes. If, on the other hand, the coins you bought are normally much more expensive in comparable condition (which is a whole other thing to learn), that is a reason to worry.

You have looked and he is not on the list? The coins might be perfectly fine and the seller very honest and competent, that is a reason for the rule that says not to name the seller unless you are nominating him for the fake seller list. And before a nomination, pictures of the coins they are offering should be posted to judge whether even a nomination is justified.

But, to cut a long story short, post the pictures in a thread on the fakes board, one coin per thread, with all the information you have on them EXCEPT, for now, the name of the seller.
Andreas Reich

Offline Constantine IV

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Re: Common Mistakes for Beginners
« Reply #40 on: January 14, 2012, 07:05:32 pm »
1 common mistake, from when I started five years ago, was to just see "Roman coin" and want to bid on it.
That there was no attribution given in any way, such as the emperor, or even worse, just 1 photo, did not bother me then.
Those are the seller to avoid. You want to see both sides of the coin.

Another example is blurring a photo to hide that it is a replica, such as happened recently by a seller on eBay. They only had 1 photo of the obverse side of a "Roman coin" and it was blurred.
It was obvious why it was blurred as it was the initials of WRL on the "coin" ... a Westair Reproductions Limited product.
Only when I emailed them about this fact did they add "replica" to the description. I saved their "100%" feedback score.

Go for a well attributed coin, provenance is nice but not to be taken seriously always. There is one seller who seems to have all his coins "found near the Thames" and I am not sure the Mud Larks are allowed to sell so much, what they find most be reported to the Museum of London.

It is better to buy a tarnished, even verdigris ridden coin, that can be cleaned, than a "shiny" cheap one with no attribution. They tend to be replicas or forgeries.
"He who gives himself airs of importance, exhibits the credentials of impotence". ~ Decimus Laberius, 46 BCE

Offline Dk0311USMC

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Re: Common Mistakes for Beginners
« Reply #41 on: January 14, 2012, 07:33:27 pm »
One of my very first coins was my Probus Antoninianus, bought just because it was an Ancient Roman coin from Ebay when I was just starting out.   I enjoyed it at first since it was my first real attributed Ancient coin, even though I knew noting of Probus at the time. 
As I discovered my collecting nitch, the coin didn't mean so much to me anymore for a while because it was just a random purchase to me, as I started fine tuning what I want to collect.   Now that my collection has expanded more and I have read more books on Roman history, I'm glad I have it again now that its situated with my other 3rd Century crisis and decline coins. Maybe its just luck that I came back around to collecting Romans in that era...

My advice in this area is that its probably a good idea to think about what you may want to collect, before making impulse buys... Learn some history before rather than aimlessly buying and learning the history later.   I do like to buy uncleaned coins though to discover what they are and learn their history that way though.

Danny

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: Common Mistakes for Beginners
« Reply #42 on: January 15, 2012, 12:45:37 pm »
... Learn some history before rather than aimlessly buying and learning the history later...

My approach, though as a dealer the financials are a bit different, has always been opppsite.  The coins I aquire inspire me to learn the history related to them.  I think it is a fun approach, though perhaps not ideal for someone with the intent of building a focused collection rather than just enjoying the hobby. 
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Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: Common Mistakes for Beginners
« Reply #43 on: January 15, 2012, 02:09:44 pm »
OK, an example.  Today I uploaded two consigned coins of the Bulgarian Tsar Ivan Stratsimir.  I spent almost an hour reading about the history of the Second Bulgarian Empire and Ivan Stratsimir.  Here is the listing info and RSI I added for the coins...

Lot of 2 Groshes, Tsardom of Vidin, Bulgaria, Ivan Stratsimir, 1356 - 1396

ME55654. Silver lot, Lot of 2 Silver Groshes, cf. Radushev - Zhekov 1.14.1 ff., aVF, weight c. 0.6g, maximum diameter c. 16mm, obverse Cyrillic legend, half-length nimbate bust of Christ facing, right hand raised in benediction, Gospels in left, flanked by IC - XC (Jesus Christ); reverse Cyrillic legend, Ivan Stratsimir seated facing on throne, lis-tipped scepter in right, mappa in left; actual coins in the photograph; $40.00

Factional divisions between feudal landlords had split the Second Bulgarian Empire into three small tsardoms-Vidin, Tarnovo and Karvuna-and several semi-independent principalities. Ivan Stratsimir ruled in Vidin. In 1393 Bulgaria and the surrounding region fell to the Ottoman Empire. Only Vidin remained free from the invading Turks, but this would not last. In 1396 Ivan Stratsimir joined the Christian crusade organized by the Hungarian king Sigismund. The Christian army suffered a heavy defeat on 25 September at the battle of Nicopolis. The victorious Ottoman sultan Bayezid I marched to Vidin and seized it by the end of 1396 or the beginning of 1397. Ivan Stratsimir was captured and imprisoned in the Ottoman capital Bursa where he was probably strangled.  

The coin inspired me to learn the history.  If it had not been consigned to me, I likely would have never learned anything about Ivan Stratsimir.    
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Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: Common Mistakes for Beginners
« Reply #44 on: January 15, 2012, 02:53:57 pm »
Building a focused collection is certainly not incompatible with having fun.  But the specific sort of fun that I describe may be incompatible with building a focused collection.  I think if you are building a focused collection, you likely know the related history already.  

Since my aquisitions are somewhat random based on the what others select and send, they take me unexpected places that I enjoy.  Random and focused do seem to be incompatible.  
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Offline Dk0311USMC

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Re: Common Mistakes for Beginners
« Reply #45 on: January 16, 2012, 09:30:32 pm »
... Learn some history before rather than aimlessly buying and learning the history later...

My approach, though as a dealer the financials are a bit different, has always been opppsite.  The coins I aquire inspire me to learn the history related to them.  I think it is a fun approach, though perhaps not ideal for someone with the intent of building a focused collection rather than just enjoying the hobby. 

That is what is similar for me about cleaning uncleaned coins.  When I was suggesting the learning of history first, it was mainly directed to those who are aimlessly starting out as I did (and as its sounds, plenty of others did) so that maybe they can find some direction before making any blind purchases they might regret.   If I am buying a Roman coin that is already attributed these days, then its probably something thats been on my radar. I will find myself buying random Greek coins though and then reading about the history, location and Era after the fact, but thats because they differ so much from region to region, rather than going for specific emperors or periods.  Also the art and designs on many of the greeks are great for impulse buys.   

Of corse I'm always up for impulse Sunday night FORVM Ebay listings!  ;D  which I need to get back to checking out more again these days....


What all this thread really boils down to is, "to each their own". That and making sure that you're not dealing with a shady seller. Thats probably the most important advice to take out of this thread.

Offline Jiminey

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Re: Common Mistakes for Beginners
« Reply #46 on: February 02, 2012, 11:48:04 pm »
As a beginner, the one "mistake" I know I made and 1 rule I have.....

DON'T SURF FOR COINS WHEN YOU ARE DRUNK!!!!!!!!

You will get a surprise in the mail 1-2 weeks later (and a pissed off spouse to go along with it).

Offline Andrew McCabe

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Re: Common Mistakes for Beginners
« Reply #47 on: February 03, 2012, 12:25:17 am »
As a beginner, the one "mistake" I know I made and 1 rule I have.....

DON'T SURF FOR COINS WHEN YOU ARE DRUNK!!!!!!!!

You will get a surprise in the mail 1-2 weeks later (and a pissed off spouse to go along with it).

Don't get into online arguments when drunk either! Or even after a modest few glasses of wine. You will be embarrassed in the morning!

Offline Randygeki(h2)

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Re: Common Mistakes for Beginners
« Reply #48 on: February 03, 2012, 12:56:59 am »
I like a little bit of direction/focus, but the more interesting coins I've gotten were mostly impulse buys  :evil:

Offline nogoodnicksleft

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Re: Common Mistakes for Beginners
« Reply #49 on: March 24, 2012, 03:58:51 pm »
Here is another thing that I just noticed, one dealer selling the same coins both on their website & e-bay seems to be doubling the prices for the coins on the e-bay. Most of the coins listed on e-bay that I saw were "buy it now or best offer" so presumably the selling strategy is aimed at getting a minimum 50% offer to get the sale price that's showing on their website. However it seems a bit unfair for the poor unsuspecting novice who might make a more reasonable offer. I don't think it is wide practise (probably just that dealer) but the bottom line is before buying or placing a offer to a dealer selling on e-bay, check their website.

 

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