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Author Topic: Anonymous half follis class A1?  (Read 923 times)

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Offline Byzantofil

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Anonymous half follis class A1?
« on: May 18, 2022, 05:00:05 am »
Not long ago, Warren Esty published an anonymous follis class A1 from the time of John Tzimisces, minted on an unusually small flan — 17 mm. and weights 4.16 grams. Of course, you might think that this is just a follis cut off in a circle, but it's not so simple. As Warren Esty writes:

The flan is not cut down from a larger coin because it is beveled (unlike other Byzantine coins) as you can see on the image. The obverse with two dots in the nimbus is like that of Class A1 and the early issues of Class A Folles' target='_blank'>Class A2. The reverse die, presumably with four-lines of text, was too large for the flan and only parts of three lines show.
Berk, catalog 200 (Jan 8, 2017), lot 380 was a coin much like this, 4.28 grams with unstated diameter and two dots in the nimbus and reverse too small to see if anything was above or below the legend. He wrote, «Half folles are rather rare and unrecognized in literature, but because of the small flan and small image they can be nothing but that denomination». However, it looks overstruck on a reverse type with only a legend, but he did not comment on the overstrike and I am not sure what the undertype is. That brings up the possibilty that some Class A1 folles used flans from earlier types that were too small for the dies and these are not half-folles, rather they are poorly made Class A1 folles.


Offline Byzantofil

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Re: Anonymous half follis class A1?
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2022, 05:00:55 am »
I couldn't find the Berk sale catalog that Warren refers to, but I did find a couple more similar coins, which is no coincidence.

The second coin was sold through Nomos on 12/20/2020. The diameter of the coin was 16.5 mm., weight 4.04 g, die angle 6 h.

Seller wrote:
This is an extraordinary example. At first sight one might wonder if it was carefully clipped to be used in a ring or a pendant, but no clear marks of clipping can be seen on the edge. In any case the transformation of this coin to jewellery is magnificent.

Offline Byzantofil

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Re: Anonymous half follis class A1?
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2022, 05:02:46 am »
I personally held the third known to me small module coin in my hands. Indeed, the edges of the coin are smooth, rounded. Diameter 18 mm., Weight about 5 gr.
It can, of course, be assumed that the smooth edges are the result of abrasion during long circulation. But the fact that we are seeing a certain trend of small module coins with a smooth flange edge makes us think about this phenomenon. In addition, all four known coins are follis of the earliest class A1, i.e. the process was localized in time.

Offline Simon

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Re: Anonymous half follis class A1?
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2022, 05:08:12 pm »
Here is an example I acquired.

John I, Anonymous Class A1; 969-976 AD. Constantinople, Follis, 4.28g. Berk-946, Sear-1793. Obv: Bust of Christ facing, wearing halo with cross, two pellets on each of the limbs of cross; inscription 'Emmanuel' around, IC - XC across field. Rx: Inscription 'Jesus Christ, King of Kings,' in four lines, without Class A Folles' target='_blank'>ornaments above and below.Half Folles are rather rare and unrecognized in literature, but because of the small flan and small image they can be nothing but that denomination. EF
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=5633 My main collection of Tetartera. Post reform coinage.

Offline Simon

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Re: Anonymous half follis class A1?
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2022, 05:13:34 pm »
Another from a group lot. I do not have specs in front of me.
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=5633 My main collection of Tetartera. Post reform coinage.

Offline Byzantofil

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Re: Anonymous half follis class A1?
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2022, 08:34:17 am »
Interesting specimens. But note, that both coin are minted over Nicephorus II folles, while condemned folles are minted on new small flans.

Offline wileyc

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Re: Anonymous half follis class A1?
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2022, 11:58:59 pm »
Whats the consideration these are coin weights? The weights certainly are in line for a 1 Nomisma

attached is a page copy of Klaus, Late Antiquity weights[/] , The second life of Antique and Late Antiquity Coins", 2014.

Offline wileyc

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Re: Anonymous half follis class A1?
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2022, 12:07:09 am »
Example of a Romanus IV

Offline Simon

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Re: Anonymous half follis class A1?
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2022, 09:25:02 am »
I had read these were found with tetartera finds from the 12th century. So I assumed they were resized to pass as current currency.

From my collection.

Size 20mm

Weight 5.0gm
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=5633 My main collection of Tetartera. Post reform coinage.

Offline Kevin P

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Re: Anonymous half follis class A1?
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2022, 11:53:41 pm »
This is an interesting thread. Thank you for posting it, Byzantofil.

I own a few Class A1 bronzes that I have marked "Half Follis?"  I will take pics and post some of them that might be of interest on this thread, but none of them exhibit the smoothed edges seen on these examples that have already been posted. The weights range from 3.1-4.1gm and the maximum diameters (is that what everyone is measuring - the largest diameter of the coin?) range from 20-24mm.

For reference, the half follis in Sear that would be the nearest predecessor to this one (that I am aware of) is SB 1736 (~75 years before Class A1) and the nearest successor in Sear is SB 1880A (~100 years after Class A1). Both of these are very rare - I am aware of perhaps a dozen of each. The examples listed in DO of SB 1736 (DO 7) are 3.5-5.3gm and 19-21mm. The examples I have recorded of SB 1880 are 2.3-4.7gm and 19-23mm.  These coins seem right in line with the weight of those examples, but the diameters are smaller. A possibly significant difference is that the die diameters of SB 1736 and 1880A were notably smaller such that the design (mostly) fit on the smaller flan. That does not appear to be the case with these, where much of the design is missing.

Offline Kevin P

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Re: Anonymous half follis class A1?
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2022, 02:34:42 am »
The first coin pictured is Class A1 - 3.3gm, 20mm

The second coin is Class A1 - 3.7gm 20mm

Offline Obryzum

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Re: Anonymous half follis class A1?
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2022, 12:59:09 am »
I used to have one of these small John I coins.  Maybe I still have a picture somewhere . . .

If there is evidence that the coin has been modified, that seems to follow the coin weight theory.  The first coin, the one with the bevel edge, seems like it may have been modified.  Likewise the modified coins in the reference books.  But the others do not look like they have been modified.  Maybe the small issues were the very first series, a sort of test strike?  I have trouble accepting the "half follis" theory. 

I have a modified Class C that I will post after I get home and take a photo. It's modified, but not cut down like the ones in the reference book.

Offline Byzantofil

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Re: Anonymous half follis class A1?
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2022, 08:00:01 am »
In general, the idea that class A1 anonymous folles dies were used to make exagia for tetarterons (and the weight of some samples coincides with the weight of tetarteron) has a right to exist.
Introduced under Nicephorus II, the predecessor of John I Tzimiskes, the tetarteron obviously needed a large number of exagia, as it still had a similar design to the solidus, and often it was only possible to distinguish one coin from another by weight.
A little embarrassing in all this is a certain variation in the weight of the samples.

 

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