BCD and the Politics of Identity

[mlkrt]

Hi guys, sorry about the bombastic headline - just a little attention grabber.
Just out of curiosity - Is there a knowledgeable forum member out there who knows BCD's identity (name and background)? Feel free to PM me if you don't want the world to know - I promise not to tell anyone.

[Enodia]

i think the reason for the initials is to protect the owner's identity.
however if you search hard enough there is at least one thread here from the past that will reveal the name for you.

~ Peter

[Andrew McCabe]

Hi guys, sorry about the bombastic headline - just a little attention grabber.
Just out of curiosity - Is there a knowledgeable forum member out there who knows BCD's identity (name and background)? Feel free to PM me if you don't want the world to know - I promise not to tell anyone.

There's probably 100 Forum members who know who BCD is and quite a few who've met him or corresponded with him. But all those who know him will probably have come at the information from other directions for example because they needed to consult the BCD library or met him at an auction or social event, or through reading numismatic literature. So it's not that it's a great secret, nor likewise with RBW. But in the case of both collectors, given how well known and easily contactable they are in real life, they are already pretty exposed to the whims of opinion and publicity, so they'd like to at least retain a little privacy when it comes to general public online chatting. Hence on Forum we refer to BCD as BCD and RBW as RBW and don't unnecessarily share personal information about either gentlemen. There's probably no great issue with someone giving you a brief bio and names via PM, but I suspect if you are interested you'll anyway come to know via other means as both gentlemen's names appear in regular academic numismatic publications, here and there.

[Brennos]

The identity of BCD has now "officially" came to light...

LINK REMOVED BY ADMIN

[mlkrt]

Thank you all for your replies!

[Andrew McCabe]

The identity of BCD has now "officially" came to light...

LINK REMOVED BY ADMIN

Though nowhere on the page you link to is BCD mentioned - there's no "also known as BCD". It's just an inference you are drawing from the initials of the honoree also used in the website address! So I'd maintain that the identity of "BCD" remains under wraps and I'll continue to refer to BCD in the context of the collector of Greek coins.

[OldMoney]

I tend to agree with Andrew.
In any case, whatever the identity of this gentleman, if he wishes to
be publicly referred to simply and explicitly as "BCD" then we should
probably do exactly that, whatever his reasons for desiring so.
Either we respect his wishes and be honourable and decent people,
or we be the type of person who does not do such things.
I prefer the former!

Walter Holt

[Jochen]

I want to add that BCD is said to have the largest numismatical library worldwide with an own librarian. So he has bought my 2 books about coins and ancient mythology too. And he is very friendly.

Best regards

[Joe Sermarini]

BTW, he is registered here but has never posted. 

[JBF]

There is some virtue to knowing whether a particular coin came from a particular collection.  I imagine that sometimes, knowing that a coin came from a particular collection, is all that stands between whether one receives it or whether it is delayed or even confiscated by authorities.  But at the same time, people like to retain their privacy, as they should.  Labels like "BCD," or Prospero collection, or a "distinguished English gentleman," make it possible to trace the provenance, while at the same time they preserve some anonymity.

I would question why anyone would need to know who BCD is, apart from idle curiosity.  If you think you need to know, well I imagine that there are ways of figuring it out as others have indicated.

[Brennos]

The identity of BCD has now "officially" came to light...

LINK REMOVED BY ADMIN

Though nowhere on the page you link to is BCD mentioned - there's no "also known as BCD". It's just an inference you are drawing from the initials of the honoree also used in the website address! So I'd maintain that the identity of "BCD" remains under wraps and I'll continue to refer to BCD in the context of the collector of Greek coins.

read the Kaghan article, he explicitly writes that the honoree is BCD...

the question of the OP is "who is BCD ?" and by publishing his own  festschrift, the collector means that he doesn't care to remain anonymous.

Of course his collection will remain known as the "BCD collection" for a while but we never know... for exemple with an other famous collector, we encounter  "Moretti collection" or "ADM collection" or "Sammlung Ludwig"

[Andrew McCabe]

...  by publishing his own  festschrift, the collector means that he doesn't care to remain anonymous.

This needs a vigorous and very strong correction.

The honoree of the festschrift not only didn't publish it, he had absolutely nothing to do with its  publication, and even further than that, he was not even aware that such a book was going to be published until after it went to print, nor did he see any of the articles within the book until he was handed a copy in Taormina. So he was in absolutely no position to address what Kagan might have written. A festscrift is usually arranged in a cloud of great secrecy.

Similarly in the case of the Burnett festscrift, also published in Taormina, Burnett only became aware of its existence two days in advance of its presentation.

[JBF]

anonymity is not complete, but nonetheless it's there, preventing the lazy from knowing the individual's true identity.  potential thieves are usually lazy (but they're not the only ones who are lazy), and so it gives _some_ protection towards thieves or other ne'er-do-wells.  The idle curious are also discouraged a little.  If you have a reason to know, you can probably figure out.

[glebe]

I don't know why everybody's being so coy here - just check out the most recent ANS publications.

Ross G.

[Andrew McCabe]

I don't know why everybody's being so coy here - just check out the most recent ANS publications.

Ross G.

We've all been there already (the link was removed). I don't believe we are discussing the identity of BCD which essentially is common knowledge. We are discussing whether, (1) in the long term, the BCD (collector) nickname will endure - I'm 100% sure it will - and (2) whether BCD wishes to remain known as BCD as far as his collection is concerned - I'm pretty sure he will - and (3) about the pretty reasonable desire of well known collectors that their coin collection can have a separate identity from their family name and home address - I think that's a good thing - and that (4) Forum continue to refer to the coin collection by the BCD name - I think we definitely should.

[glebe]

Alternatively, check out @AMcCabeCoins on Twitter for a direct link to the festschrift.

Ross G.

[Andrew McCabe]

Alternatively, check out @AMcCabeCoins on Twitter for a direct link to the festschrift.

Ross G.

Yes, to the Burnett, Demetriadi and Witschonke festschrifts. But not to BCD.

I tend to agree with Andrew. In any case, whatever the identity of this gentleman, if he wishes to be publicly referred to simply and explicitly as "BCD" then we should probably do exactly that, whatever his reasons for desiring so. Either we respect his wishes and be honourable and decent people, or we be the type of person who does not do such things.
I prefer the former!

Walter Holt

BTW, he is registered here but has never posted.  

It was because of some comments I made on the Forum board that I first met BCD. Forum is read by a far wider audience than posts here.

[Enodia]

... about the pretty reasonable desire of well known collectors that their coin collection can have a separate identity from their family name and home address - I think that's a good thing

which is exactly why i do not like the requirement here at Forvm that people must sign with their true identity if they wish to be considered for Member of the Year and other awards.
i have my small collection posted in the Gallery here. i really do not wish that to be linked with my name, which then provides anyone interested with fairly easy access to my personal details such as address, etc.
what's okay for BCD is not okay for Enodia?

~ Peter

[glebe]

... about the pretty reasonable desire of well known collectors that their coin collection can have a separate identity from their family name and home address - I think that's a good thing

which is exactly why i do not like the requirement here at Forvm that people must sign with their true identity if they wish to be considered for Member of the Year and other awards.
i have my small collection posted in the Gallery here. i really do not wish that to be linked with my name, which then provides anyone interested with fairly easy access to my personal details such as address, etc.
what's okay for BCD is not okay for Enodia?

~ Peter

I make my personal details as vague as possible on public sites. And I never give my real birth date.
Anyway I keep most of my coins in the bank.

Ross G.

[n.igma]

For the aficionado of ancient Greek coinage …… Rhousopoulos, Weber, Brand, Jameson, Warren, Houghton etc. … all historic, great collections … not a three letter acronym to be seen. The latter is nothing more that a modern fashion and marketing trend destined for the dustbin of history, as eventually occurs with all fashions.

I have little doubt that with the passage of time the Demetriadi collection will come to be identified as such.  The latest Festschrift from the ANS, ΚΑΙΡΟΣ: Contributions to Numismatics in Honor of Basil Demetriadi suggests as much.

I don’t think we should be pretentious, or too precious about current fashion and marketing trends. By all means use the latest hip marketing id, but don't think it will stick  in the case of a well documented, seminal collection. For those other minor or trivial collections of no import, scholastic or historic significance, the three letter acronym will serve no useful purpose, even from a provenance perspective.

Eventually, in the politics of identity and provenance, a three letter acronym just won't cut it.

[n.igma]

... about the pretty reasonable desire of well known collectors that their coin collection can have a separate identity from their family name and home address - I think that's a good thing

which is exactly why i do not like the requirement here at Forvm that people must sign with their true identity if they wish to be considered for Member of the Year and other awards.
i have my small collection posted in the Gallery here. i really do not wish that to be linked with my name, which then provides anyone interested with fairly easy access to my personal details such as address, etc.
what's okay for BCD is not okay for Enodia?

~ Peter

I make my personal details as vague as possible on public sites. And I never give my real birth date.
Anyway I keep most of my coins in the bank.

Ross G.

These are separate issues to that of the politics of identity and provenance, but they are good points in a world where identity fraud and asset theft, facilitated by the internet are rampant.

Best
N.

[bpmurphy]

I find this thread amusing. All this concern about who BCD is, yet Enodia, JBF, N.igma, Brenos, Jochen all fail to sign their posts.

Seems a bit hypocritical to me.

I've known BCD for 25 years. To me, when referring to his collection it will always be the BCD collection. In person I will always call him by his first name.

Barry Murphy
(my real name)

[Enodia]

I find this thread amusing. All this concern about who BCD is, yet Enodia, JBF, N.igma, Brenos, Jochen all fail to sign their posts.

Seems a bit hypocritical to me.

i'm not terribly concerned with who he is, as you will have noticed if you'd read my posts.
i also signed both of them with my real first name, as i do with almost all of my posts despite my concerns about linking my identity to my collection online, although i can't see why it matters.
i fail to see the hypocrisy, but believe as you wish.

~ Peter

[n.igma]

I find this thread amusing. All this concern about who BCD is, yet Enodia, JBF, N.igma, Brenos, Jochen all fail to sign their posts.

Seems a bit hypocritical to me.

I've known BCD for 25 years. To me, when referring to his collection it will always be the BCD collection. In person I will always call him by his first name.

Barry Murphy
(my real name)

Where is the hypocrisy in the response ? .....

For the aficionado of ancient Greek coinage …… Rhousopoulos, Weber, Brand, Jameson, Warren, Houghton etc. … all historic, great collections … not a three letter acronym to be seen. The latter is nothing more that a modern fashion and marketing trend destined for the dustbin of history, as eventually occurs with all fashions.

I have little doubt that with the passage of time the Demetriadi collection will come to be identified as such.  The latest Festschrift from the ANS, ΚΑΙΡΟΣ: Contributions to Numismatics in Honor of Basil Demetriadi suggests as much.

I don’t think we should be pretentious, or too precious about current fashion and marketing trends. By all means use the latest hip marketing id, but don't think it will stick  in the case of a well documented, seminal collection. For those other minor or trivial collections of no import, scholastic or historic significance, the three letter acronym will serve no useful purpose, even from a provenance perspective.

Eventually, in the politics of identity and provenance, a three letter acronym just won't cut it.

As a dealer you may have a different perspective,  but the fact remains that history shows the great collections of scholastic significance (like that of BCD) eventually become associated with and identified by the collector's name, not a three letter acronym.

The not so great, or not so scholastically significant collections?  Well the three letter acronym disappears from history and the identity of the collection/collector is secondary to its appearance in a sale catalogue for the purpose of provenance.

Such is the politics of identity and provenance. No hypocrisy is involved.

[Enodia]

As a dealer you may have a different perspective,  but the fact remains that history shows the great collections of scholastic significance (like that of BCD) eventually become associated with and identified by the collector's name, not a three letter acronym.

i agree with the theory in general N., but might have to disagree in this case. the high profile sales and related catalogs, and the number of collectors boasting fashionable and well marketed specimens will probably leave BCD as an interesting example of 21st century 'branding'.
imo.

~ Peter