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Author Topic: hare at last  (Read 7174 times)

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Offline HELEN S

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hare at last
« on: April 06, 2013, 02:01:34 pm »
  ive been looking for one of these for a while does anyone know the reasoning behind a hare being depicted on the coin
 i would love to hear a reason and give me something to talk about with this tiny 12mm coin

Offline Jochen

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Re: hare at last
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2013, 02:22:54 pm »
Usually the hare was a symbol of fertility.

Best regards

Offline HELEN S

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Re: hare at last
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2013, 02:29:07 pm »
  thanks for that jochen i have just had a look around and come up with the same answer

Rome

Because of its fertility (one doe can produce 42 young a year), the hare is an emblem of fertility, abundance, sexuality, lust, rampant growth and excess. It became the emblem of gods and goddesses such as Venus, Aphrodite, and Cupid. Philostratus said the most suitable sacrifice to Aphrodite was the hare as 'it possesses her gift of fertility in a superlative degree'. Pliny the Elder prescribed its meat as a cure for female sterility and reported that if you ate a hare your body would be sexually attractive for nine days. Hare's genitals were carried to prevent barrenness.



 hmmmm must ask the butcher if he has any LOL
  

Offline benito

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Re: hare at last
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2013, 02:34:13 pm »
There's also the possibility that enormous quantities of hares existed where the coin was minted.
Many collectors of Roman own a coin of Hadrian with a rabbit and a representation of Hispania.. In fact the name Hispania derives from the Phoenician word for land of rabbits.

Offline areich

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Re: hare at last
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2013, 02:37:54 pm »
Be careful with such a small coin or it will be hare today, gone tomorrow!
Andreas Reich

Offline HELEN S

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Re: hare at last
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2013, 03:03:09 pm »
 LOL even finding it in the envelope could pose a challenge
 i am also worried incase it goes haring around the house   +++ +++

  THANKS Benito that is what astounds me that there are just so many different types of animals on these coins
 each one is detailed so we know from that that they had been seen I JUST LOVE THESE COINS

Offline HELEN S

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Re: hare at last
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2013, 03:17:43 pm »
  well Benito your theory sounded a little bizarre as we are talking about an island BUT NO you are correct  they are on Sicily, as this small write up about the Bonelli's eagle shows

Bonelli's Eagle is generally brown, with a white or light tan speckled breast. Mature adults are about 70 centimetres tall, with a wingspan of around 170 centimetres. In an admirable gesture of fidelity, eagles choose only one mate, and a pair builds a large nest annually even if a prior one exists in tact. The birds feed on mammals, rodents, reptiles and birds, in Sicily favoring hares, rabbits, squirrels, partridges gulls and lizards

 you can see how the hares arrived initially as messina was so close to the mainland
 i wonder if it was ever joined?????? FASCINATING

Offline dougsmit

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Re: hare at last
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2013, 11:07:15 pm »
Messana used the hare following the capture of the city by Anaxilas the tyrant of Rhegion here the same types were used so it might be best to look for a 'why' for that city rather than Messana.   Larger denominations of this issue had a mule car on the other side honoring the Olympic victory in the mule car race by Anaxilas in 480 BC.   Earlier coins of Rhegion used a lion scalp instead of the hare but were changed to match the sister city after the victory.

I know your coin seems small but there were at least two smaller fractions from the series.  My example is an AR hexas of Rhegion with RE on the reverse and the lion scalp obverse so it might be from around 480 BC when the Olympic victory produced the type change.   It weighs 0.1g.  Someone here might be able to show a Rhegion hare but I don't have one.   The link below is a coin I would really like to own.  How about those ears!
http://www.acsearch.info/record.html?id=598450

Do note that these two cities are opposite each other across the Strait of Messina which separates Sicily from Italy.  Controlling both cities was a very big deal from a military sense. 

Offline Randygeki(h2)

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Re: hare at last
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2013, 12:25:12 am »
Nice!

Offline Jochen

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Re: hare at last
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2013, 05:20:19 am »
There's also the possibility that enormous quantities of hares existed where the coin was minted.
Many collectors of Roman own a coin of Hadrian with a rabbit and a representation of Hispania. In fact the name Hispania derives from the Phoenician word for land of rabbits.

I agree. As Benito mentions the animal on the Hispania denarii is not a hare but a rabbit. Spain was famous for its rabbits. Plinius writes that they have hollowed out even the streets of big cities and so caused often accidents.

But the story is a bit more complicated. Originally rabbits were living in Spain and North Africa. When the Phoenicians came to Spain c.1100 BC they discovered the rabbits but they didn't know them from their own homeland. They misunderstood them as dassies (Procavia capensis), an animal looking like a marmot but related to the elephants(!), which they know very well, and which were called "shaban" in Phoenician. Therefore they named Spain "ishapan", meaning "Coast of Dassies". When the Roman conquered the Iberian peninsula they renamed it from "ishapan" to "Hispania", which became finally "Espana". So literally Spain is the "Coast of dassies".

I have added a pic from Wikipedia.

Best regards
Jochen

Taras

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Re: hare at last
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2013, 08:09:58 am »
Nice issue.
As dougsmit wrote, the iconography of the hare on the coinage of Rhegion and Messana (Zankle), the two cities of the Straits of Messina, is closely linked to the historical figure of the tyrant Anaxilas (circa 500-476 b.C.). He was architect of the period of major military and political power of the ancient colony of Chalcis, Rhegion.
Anaxilas was responsible for the creation of the Magna Graecia Strait powerful State, and politically united today's city of Reggio and Messina. That State, which only for a short time managed to control maritime traffic, is historically the first attempt to bring political unity to the two sides of the Strait.
The tyrant died in 476 BC after 18 years of unchallenged power, going down in history as the first man to have joined the Straits of Messina under a single political authority.

Anaxilas gained control of Rhegion in 494 and subsequently in 488 seized control of Zancle, which he re-named Messana, after transferring a large contingent of Messenian refugees from the Peloponnesos there.
Immediately after the conquest, Messana adopted the same types and weight system of Rhegion (Euboean-Calcidian: one stater-tridrachm = circa 17,2g = three drachms 6,70g).
Eight years later, probably to give his empire a more international economic power, on 480 b.C. Anaxilas decided to adopt for the two ciites the Attic standard (one stater-tetradrachm = circa 17,4g = four drachms 4,36g), and introduced the new types Biga of mules/Hare bounding.
And here we come to the topic of this discussion.

BIGA OF MULES:
Aristotele tells us (Arist. Rhet. 3, 2, 1405b 23) that Anaxilas won the mule biga event in the Olympic Games, probably on 484 or 480 b.C.
The Olympic victory is celebrated by the charioteer shown on the obverse of this coin and similar issues from Messana, which probably represents the tyrant himself during the race.

HARE:
Aristotele also tells us that Anaxilas "introduced the hare into Sicily" (Arist. fr. 578 R ap. Poll. V, 15).
For a long time scholars have wondered if this passage from Aristotle is to be interpreted in a literal way, meaning that he had introduced a new variety of hare to hunt in Sicily.
Perhaps the question is a bit more complex, and "the introduction of the hare" is to be interpreted in a metaphorical sense, meaning the introduction of a cult linked to the animal.
The solution to the riddle comes from another type, an extremely rare Tetradrachm minted in the same city, Messana, some years after the death of Anaxilas (photo courtesy Staatliche Museen Berlin)

Here we can clearly understand that the hare is a religious symbol, linked to the cult of the god Pan.

Homeric Hymn 19 to Pan (trans. Evelyn-White) (Greek epic C7th - 4th B.C.) :
"Hermes . . . came to Arkadia (Arcadia), the land of many springs and mother of flocks, there where his sacred place is as god of Kyllene (Cyllene). For there, though a god, he used to tend curly-fleeced sheep in the service of a mortal man, because there fell on him and waxed a strong melting desire to wed the rich-tressed daughter of Dryopos, and there he brought about the merry marriage. And in the house she bare Hermes a dear son who from his birth was marvellouse to look upon, with goat's feet and two horns--a noisy, merry-laughing child. But when the nurse saw his uncouth face and full beard, she was afraid and sprang up and fled and left the child. Then luck-bringing Hermes received him and took him in his arms: very glad in his heart was the god. And he went quickly to the abodes of the deathless gods, carrying his son wrapped in warm skins of mountain hares, and set him down beside Zeus and showed him to the rest of the gods. Then all the immortals were glad in heart and Bakkheios (Bacchic) Dionysos in especial; and they called the boy Pan [i.e. derived from the word pantes meaning ‘all’] because he delighted all their hearts.".


And what is the link between Pan and Anaxilas?.
Anaxilas was a shrewd and intelligent statesman.
He knew that the Messenians from him deported to Zancle after the expulsion of Samians, would need to adapt to the new land, in order to be reliable subjects of his domain.
For the men of ancient Greece probably the emotional bond more closely with their cultural roots was made up of myths and legends popular in their homeland. Well, we know from archaic poets like Pindar, that the cult of Pan was widely spread in the neighboring regions of Arcadia and Messenia, quite the homelands of the new citizens of Zankle-Messana!
So, in my opinion, the hare on the coins of Messana, has a political-cultural meaning.

Bye friends
Nico

Offline Andrew McCabe

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Re: hare at last
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2013, 09:08:43 am »
I attach pic below of a gryphon catching a hare, on a Roman Republican As. Crawford describes it as a "hare's head" but it's pretty obviously a complete but very dead hare, one can see it's cute little legs and tail; its head is in the gryphon's claws. I wonder was there a related myth, or did gryphons just eat hares?

Offline HELEN S

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Re: hare at last
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2013, 03:50:03 pm »
 thanks guys that is an awful lot of history about the hare still working on why the gryphon was depicted with a hare through time FUNNY some of these things we take for granted but when we start to look into them all sorts of ideas come to light
 i have really enjoyed reading them THANKS AGAIN   +++ +++

Offline HELEN S

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Re: hare at last
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2013, 06:02:13 am »
  its arrived today and the hare is perfectly formed and visible the SHOCK was its thinness how did they make these coins please??
 it is almost as thin as a hammered well i little thicker but after the sestertius i have been collecting its just so different
 i have put it straight into a lindner plastic capsule does anyone think these could scratch a coin thankyou for any comments   +++

Offline HELEN S

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Re: hare at last
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2013, 12:35:28 pm »
  

 i have read all the posts again with interest
 Taras are the coins you put up from your collection? they are magnificent
 i do love the hare it does have something really special about it
 maybe it is because i sometimes see them running across the fields always on their own they do have a kind of magical feeling
 i really like looking at this coin in my collection
 i would like some advice though when i purchased the coin it did say slight porosity is this something i can halt? should i just make sure it is kept dry from now on THANKS for any advice

 is it a good idea to maybe blow it with a hair dryer to check that all the moisture is out of it OR is that a daft idea as the damage has already been done THANKS for any advice    ::) ::)

Taras

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Re: hare at last
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2013, 01:10:38 pm »
Hi Helen,
the coins I posted are not from my collection, it would be great, but I think I'll have to wait long before I could afford to buy them. :D
As I reported, the first is from the CNG database, you can find it simply making a search for "Messana" on their site, the others are from the Muenzkabinett of the Berlin Museum.
I post here the links, so you can find more informations about them:
http://www.smb.museum/ikmk/object.php?id=18206585
http://www.smb.museum/ikmk/object.php?id=18214507
bye bye
:)

Nico

P.S. I am not expert in preservation of ancient coins, but I would not use an hair dryer.

Offline Lee S

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Re: hare at last
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2013, 03:45:41 pm »
Hi Helen,

  The term "porosity" refers to a slightly sponge-like surface on old silver coins which is most likely the result of impurities in the silver corroding away over the centuries, it does not have anything to do with the coin containing moisture, so you do not need to worry about that!!  ;D

  Of course it is a good idea to keep your coins dry, and if in doubt I don't see a hair dryer doing any damage, but it is probably easier to just stick a bag of silica gel in with the coin for a few days, this will ensure that the coin is bone dry!

 Best wishes,

 Lee.

Offline HELEN S

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Re: hare at last
« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2013, 04:42:45 pm »
 

 ah thanks for that Lee yep i have some silica i will place a bag in the bottom of my coin box   +++ +++

Offline JBF

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Re: hare at last
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2013, 10:10:11 pm »
Wait a bit, for the record, what is the difference between a rabbit and a hare
And I get that Spain has rabbits, but was it rabbits or hares that are on the coins of Messana and Rhegion?  (Hare sounds better which is why dealers probably use it, more 'poetic.'
Taras, thank you for pointing to the Pan connection, that is neat.

What I have always wondered is whether the Akragas coins that show eagles ripping apart a rabbit (or hare?)
were making a political statement, although I believe that Akragas is some distance away from Messana.
Is that possible? or is Akragas too distant from Messana?

Congratulations on getting your rabbit, Helen.  I hope you "love him and pet him and keep him warm" (bugs bunny reference  ;)

Kind Regards,
John

Offline Andrew McCabe

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Re: hare at last
« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2013, 04:04:55 am »
Wait a bit, for the record, what is the difference between a rabbit and a hare?

From the BBC's webpage entitled "Can you spot the difference between a rabbit and a hare?"

"Rabbits have long ears, big eyes, thick fur, short bob tails, are good runners and jumpers and have back legs bigger than their front legs. However, this description also fits a hare. "

I guess that clears things up.

Taras

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Re: hare at last
« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2013, 04:31:01 pm »
Wait a bit, for the record, what is the difference between a rabbit and a hare?  
And I get that Spain has rabbits, but was it rabbits or hares that are on the coins of Messana and Rhegion?  (Hare sounds better which is why dealers probably use it, more 'poetic.'
Taras, thank you for pointing to the Pan connection, that is neat.

What I have always wondered is whether the Akragas coins that show eagles ripping apart a rabbit (or hare?)
were making a political statement, although I believe that Akragas is some distance away from Messana.
Is that possible? or is Akragas too distant from Messana?

Congratulations on getting your rabbit, Helen.  I hope you "love him and pet him and keep him warm" (bugs bunny reference  ;) .  

Kind Regards,
John


Dear John,
In fact in history there is an important event that saw opposing Messana to Akragas, on 480 b.C.
I am referring to the famous war between the Calcidian-Punic coalition (Rhegion, Messana, Carthage) against the Dorian coalition (Lokri Epiphiziri, Syracuse and Akragas). As we know, the Dorians won.
However, I do not think that the types you are referring to (eagles ripping apart an hare) are connected to that event... they were minted more than 50 years after the war.
The type indeed has not yet been interpreted by scholars, apart from a general reference to the cult of Zeus (of which the eagle was sacred animal).
The image of eagles (often two) devouring the hare on the types of Akragas brings to my mind the Agamemnon of Aeschylus... the auspice: At the beginning of the military expedition the Achaeans saw two eagles devouring an hare, to symbolize the destruction of Troy. But for now I have no idea how to put this in relation to the coinage of Akragas.

About the issue "hare or rabbit"?
It is an hare, first because we know this from Aristotele, second because the animal sacred to Pan was the hare, not the rabbit.

Also just look at the coin, remembering that the Greeks were very accurate and realistic in their representations. The hares, morphologically, are very different from rabbits. Hares have longer ears, are larger, more willowy, with feet longer than 9 cm.
In addition, they are much faster than rabbits, reaching 60 km/h when running.

Bye friend
Nico

 

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