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Author Topic: Augustus (Under Tiberius) - Is this real?  (Read 245 times)

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Jj W

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Augustus (Under Tiberius) - Is this real?
« on: October 06, 2021, 04:35:36 pm »
(I'm pasting this same intro into all my first posts to level set. Thanks for your patience)
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Hello all,


I'm new here.  Please be kind :)

So I recently found out about auctions for ancient coins and artifacts.  I've mostly just been buying things that feel interesting or give me a good feeling.  I have always loved archeology and history, and also been a minor coin collector since childhood.

I'm not really collecting as an investment, more as a form of time travel.  I just love touching and holding these objects and imagining who may have held it when it was newer.  Having some kind of historical context to these objects is what I am mostly after. 

Also, I am strongly interested in attempting to restore everything to as close to what it looked like when it was new(er).  I don't want to destroy anything, but I also do want to be "aggressive" in the restoration efforts in an attempt to do so.

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So with this (potentially real) coin I'm looking for

1. Any info you all might think about it.
     a. The only description was "AE As. RIC82. Divine Augustus/Eagle VF Struck 34-37 AD - AUGUSTUS POSTHUMOUS ISSUE UNDER TIBERIUS"
     b. It seems to be in good shape.
     c. I read this is commonly faked so I'm concerned.
2. Best advice to attempt to restore it.
     a. Does it look like any of this "bronze disease" I've read about?
     b. Is it possible to restore this to look closer to new?


Thank you for reading and I really do appreciate your time and look forward to learning more and being part of your community.

All the best,
JJ Walker

Jj W

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Re: Augustus (Under Tiberius) - Is this real?
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2021, 06:48:00 pm »
11.5g
2.5cm

Offline Jay GT4

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Re: Augustus (Under Tiberius) - Is this real?
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2021, 07:35:22 pm »
Pictures are bit blurry but it looks ok.  No need to "restore" ancient coins.  Leave them as they are.  And welcome to Forum.

Offline Akropolis

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Re: Augustus (Under Tiberius) - Is this real?
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2021, 08:22:56 pm »
I agree with Jay GT4. You cannot “improve” this coin. You only make it worse.
PeteB

Offline Meepzorp

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Re: Augustus (Under Tiberius) - Is this real?
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2021, 12:09:05 am »
Hi Jj W,

The previous posters here are correct. Leave the coin alone.

I am a moderator of this section of Forum. Technically, we are not supposed to discuss price here in Forum. You seem to new here, so you are probably not familiar with the rules. It is not a big mistake. It's a minor one.

Meepzorp

Jj W

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Re: Augustus (Under Tiberius) - Is this real?
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2021, 10:37:56 am »
Oh sorry.  I'll refrain from posting prices.  I just figured it would help people.  Thanks for the warning and I'll edit it out.

Jj W

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Re: Augustus (Under Tiberius) - Is this real?
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2021, 10:45:07 am »
Pictures are bit blurry but it looks ok.  No need to "restore" ancient coins.  Leave them as they are.  And welcome to Forum.

Thank you!  I'm excited to learn more. 

Interested in the no need to restore ancient coins bit.  I think about classic paintings for example.  They even go so far as to touch up paint and other details to try to bring it back to original-ish condition for people to admire the way it was intended.  Why is this not a similar position in the coin community?  I can kind of see the point when I think about Venice Italy though.  It does feel very artificial when you realize how little of it is as old as it seems.  Almost like it's Epcot Center. 

I certainly don't want to make the coins worse though.

Offline otlichnik

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Re: Augustus (Under Tiberius) - Is this real?
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2021, 07:23:07 pm »
Welcome JjW.

Ancient coins are often cleaned - that is a process meant to remove dirt and encrustations that have been on the coin from burial.  However, this process is not meant (ideally) to affect the patina - which is the aging process of the surface of the metal itself - just to remove dirt and encrustations.

The patina is generally believed to make the coin look better, adds value to the coin and acts to protect the coin as the patina is often more stable and protective than the original surface.  That is why you don't need to worry about gloves and fingerprints when handling ancient coins.

Removing the patina is easy to do - with chemicals such as acids.  However, it will lower the value and may end up starting chemical chain reactions that destroy the coin.

That is why collectors and cleaners do not try to restore ancients to their original look.

That said, it is entirely understandable why the original look is fascinating.

If you look around you will find that coins with the original look are available.  That is because other people have cleaned them harshly.  The best piece of advice I can give you is to not try to "reset" any of your coins but keep an eye out for some already in that state if you want them - and be aware that they should be much cheaper.

I attach an image of one of my coins, a fulus of the Islamic ruler Badr al-Din Lu'lu, a Zangid Emir of Mosul from the mid-13th century AD.  It was harshly cleaned before I bought it but is a fairly rare type so this was all I could find/afford.  It is now fairly shiny copper so looks like it would have back then.

SC
SC
(Shawn Caza, Ottawa)

Jj W

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Re: Augustus (Under Tiberius) - Is this real?
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2021, 10:39:27 am »
Thank you so much for the kind and detailed reply!

What you said makes a lot of sense.  And your fulu is really beautiful wow!  That is good advice.  I actually did buy quite a few that are in incredible condition as well (which is kind of why I look at the rest with a side eye :D ). 

I certainly don't want to have my restoration end up destroying one of these objects that travelled through time all the way to my hands.  I have been thinking about this in the way that conservators restore works of art in museums.  I didn't think that the metal in coins may not lend itself to this.  Thank you for this and I will consider everything you said.

Offline otlichnik

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Re: Augustus (Under Tiberius) - Is this real?
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2021, 05:15:27 pm »
Ancient bronze items in museums are almost never restored to shiny condition by removing patina.  Most are cleaned to the nice green color - verdigris - which literally means "the green of the Greeks".  You will see some shiny objects, but that is usually where they were so corroded that was the only way to see any details or keep them from decaying further. 

Ancient iron objects are usually cleaned to the original - often through electrolysis.  But this is because ferrous rust has to be stopped and treated or it will destroy the item.  There is no equivalent for iron to the nice stable green patina of bronze.

SC
SC
(Shawn Caza, Ottawa)

 

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