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Author Topic: Seal with Chi-Rho shield  (Read 690 times)

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Offline Orpio

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Seal with Chi-Rho shield
« on: September 20, 2022, 06:54:57 am »
Hi,
could you help me find any references to below seal?
We have head with helmet (on the right  :<a href='../numiswiki/view.asp?key=star' target='_blank'>star</a>:)above rectangular shield and on area of shield is  :<a href='http://www.forumancientcoins.com/catalog/roman-and-greek-coins.asp?vpar=810&pos=0' target='_blank'>Chi-Rho</a>:. On the left ligature of dobule K and I, on  right P and K, on the bottom letters E O(probably) P). For me this attribution associated with Constantine times and battle of the Milvian Bridge.
But on the bid  was mentioned that seal is older: from 3rd to 1st century before Chr.  (I know that this sign is before Christianity but written on the shield?).

best regards,
Piotr

Offline djmacdo

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Re: Seal with Chi-Rho shield
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2022, 04:15:58 pm »
I am afraid this very much resembles a grow of sealings on sale about eighteen months ago that were show to be false when two different seals exhibited the same impression of papyrus on the reverse.  I cannot say for certain this is a modern fake, but I am very suspicious of it.

Offline Lech Stępniewski

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Re: Seal with Chi-Rho shield
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2022, 07:59:46 am »
On the left ligature of dobule K and I, on  right P and K

I see two additional smaller Chi-Rho there, partially obliterated.

And of course, Chi-Rho is one of the most commonly used symbols to sell something as Christian antiquity. Counterfeiters are well aware of this.
Lech Stępniewski
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Poland

Offline Orpio

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Re: Seal with Chi-Rho shield
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2022, 08:29:00 am »
Dzień dobry Panie Lechu - dawno nie mieliśmy okazji wymieniać myśli.  :)
Pozdrawiam serdecznie Piotrek.

In reference to replies. According to Seller notes it is ex-collection of Victor Hruby - if it is not surname coincidence (or Seller is not make it up) this man died in late of 70th.
I don't know that it is copy of ancient seal or it is fantastic design. Strange it is that is not sell as christian item but seal from Zeugma dated 3rd to 1st BC.

Offline Lech Stępniewski

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Re: Seal with Chi-Rho shield
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2022, 09:01:44 am »
Dzień dobry Panie Lechu - dawno nie mieliśmy okazji wymieniać myśli.  :)
Pozdrawiam serdecznie Piotrek.

Dzień dobry Panie Piotrze. Tak, kiedyś miło nam się rozmawiało na tematy rozmaite. Również serdecznie Pana pozdrawiam.

According to Seller notes

I think it would not be improper if you copy his whole note (of course without link).
Lech Stępniewski
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Poland

Offline Orpio

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Re: Seal with Chi-Rho shield
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2022, 10:04:13 am »
Another Seller (which sold similar seals) put such description:
SELEUKID(?)
ca. 2nd-1st century BC
Uniface terracotta clay seal. Zeugma(?)
clay; 2,86g // 24mm
chi-rho like symbol in frame; helmet to right above.
EF
Ex. Collection Münzgalerie Viktor Hruby, Vienna

My Seller did not deign to reply to the e-mail about detailed data. In bid was short info: TONABDRUCK RÖMISCHER SIEGEL VON PAPYRUSURKUNDEN, 1. Jh. v. Chr. bis 3. Jh. n. Chr. .


Offline Lech Stępniewski

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Re: Seal with Chi-Rho shield
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2022, 10:34:24 am »
Ex. Collection Münzgalerie Viktor Hruby, Vienna

The British Museum has many objects from this collection.
https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/term/BIOG62348

But how can anyone verify this information. Also, information about similar seal is useless in the case of forgery.
Lech Stępniewski
NOT IN RIC
Poland

 

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