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Author Topic: Interesting Magnentius AE coin, this reverse variation Not in RIC from Siscia,  (Read 994 times)

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Offline quadrans

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I have an interesting Magnentius coin, from SISCIA.
This type exists as  RIC VIII 318, but the reverse RIC 318 is not the same, the emperor holding a spear, but this coin the emperor holding an olive branch. I do not find the same from Siscia earliar.

 Any opinion?

148 Magnentius (350-353 A.D.), Siscia, RIC VIII Not in (!!!), III/VAL(ligate)//ASIS, AE-2, Centenionalis, VICTORIA AVG ET CAES, Emperor, #1
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=172200


148 Magnentius (350-353 A.D.), Siscia, RIC VIII Not in (!!!), III/VAL(ligate)//ASIS, AE-2, Centenionalis, VICTORIA AVG ET CAES, Emperor, #1
avers: DN MAGNEN TIVS P F AVG, Bare-headed, draped and cuirassed bust right, A behind the head.
reverse: VICTORIA AVG ET CAES, Emperor, bare-headed and in military dress, standing right holding an olive branch and standard decorated with Chi-Rho, foot on the shoulder of a bare-headed captive seated right.
exergue: III/VAL(ligate)//ASIS, diameter: 23,3-24,4mm, weight: 4,34g, axis: 6,5h(195°),
mint: Siscia, date: 350-353 AD.,
ref: RIC VIII Not in this reverse variation !!! (318 var. not a spear, but olive branch !!!), C-, Sear -,

Refards

Joe

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Offline maridvnvm

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Interesting coin.
Could what you see as a laurel branch actually be a Star? This star could be an artefact of a some strange facet of the striking process. Could the coin be overstruck on another for example? There appears to be the remains of the spear evident behind the emperor's leg, which is where I would expect to see it.
Just exploring the possibilities here.
Martin

Offline quadrans

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Thank you, Martin, your Opinion.

The Rome mint is similar reverse but not the same because the standard in Rome decorated Eagle, not Ch-Rho,
and if you realized both legs have some decoration on both sides which is related to Roman type footwear. as visible another example too.
It is not a remaining part of the spear. In hand, the coin is not like the overstruck but all thing is possible.

I will post here the other two examples of mine but the Rome mint to compare.

Joe

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Offline Victor C

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Bastien, in Le Monnayage de Magnence, has an example with the olive branch-- #517a
Victor Clark

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Offline quadrans

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Thank you, Victor,

Unfortunately, I do not have this book, but thank you for the information.
Bastian only described this coin or do they have the picture too?

Regards

 Joe
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Offline Victor C

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there is a picture
Victor Clark

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Offline quadrans

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Dear Victor,

If you have this picture you have a chance to post it here?

thank you

Joe
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Offline quadrans

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Great Victor Thank you   +++

Joe
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Offline curtislclay

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But the branch is not clear in Bastien's illustration (see above), and Bastien doesn't mention it in his description. The three other Siscian coins he illustrates all clearly have spear not branch.
Curtis Clay

Offline quadrans

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O the site of OCRE RIC VIII 318 Siscia mint showed the spear...

http://numismatics.org/ocre/id/ric.8.sis.318?lang=en


Regards

 Joe
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Offline Heliodromus

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Quote
The Rome mint is similar reverse but not the same because the standard in Rome decorated Eagle, not Ch-Rho

There's an evolution of the corresponding type at Rome. It starts with spear and eagle on globe (RIC 178), then ends with this same labarum/Chi-Rho and branch type (RIC 193). See attached examples from my collection, below.

Here's a couple more of the Siscia branch type - one for Decentius, and one for Magnentius.

Ben

Offline quadrans

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Thank you Ben  +++

You can find here the OCRE page the Magnentius and Decentius Coins with Spear from Siscia, but only one-one examples:

Magnentius RIC VIII 318
http://numismatics.org/ocre/id/ric.8.sis.318?lang=hu

Decentius RIC VIII 319
http://numismatics.org/ocre/id/ric.8.sis.319?lang=en

Joe
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Offline quadrans

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Hi all,

What do you mean this is the new type or only the new variation...?

Regards

 Joe
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Offline Heliodromus

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It seems a significant difference - should be a new type I think.

I forgot to say congratulations - that's a great coin!

Ben

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Thank you, Ben  +++

 Regards

 Joe
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Offline SC

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    • A Handbook of Late Roman Bronze Coin Types 324-395.
Fantastic coin.

I agree it is a new type.

The VICTORIA AVG LIB ROMANOR type was likely struck at Rome in the second and third quarter of 350 and celebrates Magnentius' capture of Rome

Siscia was only under Magnentius' control during August and September 351.  They clearly decided to draw on the Rome type for the type struck to celebrate the capture of Siscia.  (Aside from the design, the VAL in the field might also refer back to the VICTORIA AVG LIB of the earlier type (Laffranchi thought the VAL referred Magnentius' legate Valens but Bastien rejected this noting this did not match with late Roman practice.)

The design was clearly intended to be slightly different from the Rome type - the reversed spear replacing the branch.  That seems to be a bit of an odd change to make, though the spear appears to be reversed so the meaning is almost identical - peace after victory.

SC


SC
(Shawn Caza, Ottawa)

Offline quadrans

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Thank you, Shawn, your comment... +++

Regards

 Joe
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Offline siscia_avg

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Arriving a bit late to discussion, but in time to add my two examples. Branch is clear.
These two are only ones I ever saw until now. I remember in 2015. on coin fair in Verona Italian dealer asked me how many variants I have and was a bit surprised that I have them but sounded familiar with this unpublished branch type.



https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=172262  https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=172263


https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=172264  https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=172265

Offline quadrans

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Thank you, "siscia_avg", great coins... +++

Regards

 Joe
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Offline quadrans

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Thank you, Ben 🤗

Great coin, 👍

Regards

Joe
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Offline okidoki

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Very nice catch Joe
All the Best,
Eric
There are no strangers, only friends you do not know yet.

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/index.php?cat=37270

Offline quadrans

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Thanks, Eric, 👍🤗😉
All the Best :), Joe
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