Author Topic: Geta fouree? (Read 1796 times)

krazy · « **on:** December 18, 2008, 09:18:16 am »

Hi everyone! I bought this coin (17.5 mm) recently with the "feeling" that it may be a Geta fouree. It has a (strange?) dark-red patina and I'm not sure if should be cleaned to reveal more details. Unfortunately I don't have a weight but I hope the picture will tell something about it's 'type' and authenticity.

Best regards, Dany

romeo · « **Reply #1 on:** December 18, 2008, 12:07:36 pm »

well i cant find a AE with this reverse so unless i have over looked it (which believe me is possible) it is reasonable to conclude it is a fouree with the silvering blasted away by a harsh cleaning process, maybe too long in the old lemon juice!
atually i have just seen this that you might want to take a look at....https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=49449.msg307829#msg307829

archivum · « **Reply #2 on:** December 18, 2008, 01:07:58 pm »

Ancient limes denarii were often low-grade alloy or billon; they would start out apparently silver, then lose their silver look over time. I think yours is a billon denarius.

awl · « **Reply #3 on:** December 18, 2008, 05:27:30 pm »

The coin is a limes denarius with the priestly implements. Your example looks authentic.

krazy · « **Reply #4 on:** December 18, 2008, 05:45:29 pm »

Thank you for your prompt answers. As you said romeo, it seems the coin suffered a harsh cleaning process. That's why I have reasons to believe this is a genuine billon denarius. What I'm trying to say is that I bought the coin from a seller who had about 50 coins (mostly 4th century common follis) all cleaned in the same way. He had a fix price for all of them, including 2 greek coins, 2 AE Trajan and a very nice AE Delmatius.

archivum · « **Reply #5 on:** December 18, 2008, 07:10:39 pm »

-- What the billon suggestion implies is that your coin has not necessarily suffered an especially harsh cleaning-process; billon naturally weathers like bronze while coin silver does not. As a billon coin goes, yours is probably aVF, with no sign of harsh cleaning, in my view at least.

casata137ec · « **Reply #6 on:** December 18, 2008, 08:29:04 pm »

To be honest, with the couple of actual uncleaned denarii that I have recieved, they looked just like that. The crud was kinda wierd and softish. I am thinking, and I may be wrong, but it looks like an uncleaned silver.

Chris

edit: I knew I could find it...I posted one I found (Severus Alexander) and the cleaning process...looks like you may have found one of thos "silver found" claims.

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=42289.0

C.

archivum · « **Reply #7 on:** December 18, 2008, 10:03:17 pm »

It could be one of those, or it could be just billon, in which case it's going to deteriorate greatly if you try to clean it. You might try to scuff a small bit of the edge to determine what you're actually dealing with.

krazy · « **Reply #8 on:** December 19, 2008, 05:02:01 am »

Quote from: casata137ec on December 18, 2008, 08:29:04 pm

I knew I could find it...I posted one I found (Severus Alexander) and the cleaning process...looks like you may have found one of thos "silver found" claims.

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=42289.0

C.

I had a similar coin cleaned with lemon juice. At that time I didn't know any method for cleaning ancient coins except lemon juice. When I started the cleaning process the coin was unidentifiable (a light green). Unfortunately I exaggerated with the cleaning, using normal water and a brush. It was a mistake, quite normal for one of my first unclenead coins. I hope I'll not make the same mistake again. I posted some pictures with the coin, thought not from the start of the cleaning process.

In this case (Geta) what do you suggest? Should I try a soft cleaning with DW?

Quote from: archivum on December 18, 2008, 10:03:17 pm

It could be one of those, or it could be just billon, in which case it's going to deteriorate greatly if you try to clean it. You might try to scuff a small bit of the edge to determine what you're actually dealing with.

There's no need to make that, I see a spot on the edge like a shiny bronze color. In my opinion, thought I may be wrong, it seems to be a silvered, and not silver, coin.

DevilKid · « **Reply #9 on:** December 19, 2008, 05:57:52 am »

Next time use only distilled water

awl · « **Reply #10 on:** December 19, 2008, 10:13:52 am »

Geta did not have any silvered coins. It is either a denarius or a fouree, more likely a denarius. What does the weigh?

archivum · « **Reply #11 on:** December 19, 2008, 11:12:38 am »

Since it bears on the issue of cleaning, it's worth iterating that both billon and fourre denarii as distinguished from silver denarii respond badly to cleaning as if they were actually silver; if your coin is showing a more or less bright bronzy spot, then regardless of weight your coin's apter to be billon or fourre, at least what is left of it, minus the plate.

krazy · « **Reply #12 on:** December 20, 2008, 03:20:14 am »

Quote from: newbasic on December 19, 2008, 05:57:52 am

Next time use only distilled water

I learned my lesson

Quote from: awl on December 19, 2008, 10:13:52 am

Geta did not have any silvered coins. It is either a denarius or a fouree, more likely a denarius. What does the weigh?

I hope in a few days I'll be able to post a weight. I decided not to try any kind of cleaning until I have the weight. BTW an identification of a denarius "hide" by some dirt or a fouree has anything to do with the high/low preserved portrait or elements of the reverse?

archivum · « **Reply #13 on:** December 20, 2008, 09:31:54 am »

If it's fourre or billon, what looks like corrosion or wear is just that; if it's encrusted silver, you might retrieve sharper detail. But what helps with the silver will hurt with the billon or fourre.

krazy · « **Reply #14 on:** December 20, 2008, 10:11:54 am »

Thanks for the tips and observations archivum.

casata137ec · « **Reply #15 on:** December 20, 2008, 12:48:28 pm »

I'm sticking with it's is a straight silver denarius. And will be very nice when completed!

Chris

romeo · « **Reply #16 on:** December 20, 2008, 01:24:17 pm »

casata, ive just read the thread on the serverus alex.. you could well be right here! thats a incredible transformation! its made me want to go through my junk box again ! im sure i must of missed some silver lol

like scottys progress picture too. cool wish i knew how he did that!

awl · « **Reply #17 on:** December 20, 2008, 02:23:45 pm »

Is there any evidence that this coin is actually silver or is this just a guess?

romeo · « **Reply #18 on:** December 20, 2008, 02:44:55 pm »

no, but since that there dosent seem to be a AE with that reverse then it seems logical that its either silver or billion or fouree. $:-\$

awl · « **Reply #19 on:** December 20, 2008, 02:55:50 pm »

There are a considerable amount of limes denarii (bronze coins) of this type in particular. If you zoom in at the surface of the coin it looks slightly porous like bronze and not dirt.

casata137ec · « **Reply #20 on:** December 20, 2008, 03:09:13 pm »

Every truly uncleaned denarius I have worked has that same type of "patina". It is kinda fuzzy and rough to the touch and has a reddish brown to black coloration and is generally the same thickness all over the coin (the edges might be thinner). I figure it is just years and years of standard silver tarnish/"toning" that grow on a truly undisturbed coin. With both limes and billon, generally speaking anyway, they get an actual patina due to the higher copper/base metal content. At least in my experience. Of course I could be wrong.

Chris

romeo · « **Reply #21 on:** December 20, 2008, 03:14:28 pm »

well only krazy will be able to tell us in the course of time if it is a silver, or a fouree or a billion with the silvering gone.
keep us informed krazy

casata137ec · « **Reply #22 on:** December 20, 2008, 03:27:21 pm »

Quote from: romeo on December 20, 2008, 03:14:28 pm

well only krazy will be able to tell us in the course of time if it is a silver, or a fouree or a billion with the silvering gone.
keep us informed krazy

Yup!

Chris

krazy · « **Reply #23 on:** December 24, 2008, 06:04:58 am »

I will romeo

In the meantime I made a few pictures (better), including one with the flan showing exactly what I'm dealing with: a fouree or billon. I'm a little bit frustrated by the fact it isn't a denarius, anyway I made a good deal.

Click on the image to zoom.

Dany

krazy · « **Reply #24 on:** January 07, 2009, 07:18:26 am »

Quote from: awl on December 19, 2008, 10:13:52 am

Geta did not have any silvered coins. It is either a denarius or a fouree, more likely a denarius. What does the weigh?

Happy New Year to everyone! Finally I was able to measure the weight which is 2.78 g.

News:

Author Topic: Geta fouree? (Read 1796 times)

romeo

DevilKid

romeo

romeo

romeo