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Author Topic: Rzeźbienie w medalionie  (Read 147 times)

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Offline Lech Stępniewski

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Rzeźbienie w medalionie
« on: October 02, 2021, 09:14:56 am »
O nowe odmiany coraz trudniej, więc odnotowuję także ciekawostki.

Otóż jest sobie w VII tomie RIC medalion wybity w brązie, całkiem przyjemny, z Constantinopolis na awersie i miłą scenką na rewersie - z legendą RESTITVTOR REIP (niżej egzemplarz muzeum w Berlinie).



Ale właśnie na jednej z aukcji pokazał się egzemplarz tego typu, jakościowo bez porównania gorszy, który ma na awersie jeszcze dodatkowo coś w rodzaju gałęzi.



W ręce tego medalionu nie miałem, ale nie widzę, jaki taka "gałąź" mogłaby mieć sens i jestem niemal pewien, że dorobiono ją przy ogólnym dorzeźbianiu tego egzemplarza, bo widać, że mocno był rzeźbiony (tooling). Może ktoś próbował "ukryć" w ten sposób rysę? Piszę ukryć w cudzysłowie, bo przecież wskutek tego zabiegu rzecz jeszcze bardziej rzuca się w oczy jako dziwactwo.

Jeśli ktoś ma jakieś lepszy pomysł na wyjaśnienie tego dodatku, albo sądzi, że jest to jakiś dodatek z epoki (ale co by miał znaczyć i po co?), będę wdzięczny za podpowiedź. Na złotkach czy sreberkach można w ostateczności podejrzewać w takich destrukcyjnych wypadkach próbę jakości kruszcu, ale to jest medalion z brązu.



Lech Stępniewski
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Poland

Offline dwarf

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Re: Rzeźbienie w medalionie
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2021, 11:11:02 am »
But surely the palm branch makes sense.
This medal may have served as a price in Roman games.
A lot of contorniates e.g. show later engraved palm branches.
https://tinyurl.com/p835rm5u

Regards
Klaus

Offline Lech Stępniewski

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Re: Rzeźbienie w medalionie
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2021, 12:19:31 pm »
A lot of contorniates e.g. show later engraved palm branches.

Really interesting. Contorniates are not my area of expertise. Thanks.

But what this "branch" means? It is rather crudely made and I wouldn't call this "engraving". Besides, such addition evidently and irretrievably spoils an object, so makes prize worse. Is there any more detailed hypothesis which explains this?
Lech Stępniewski
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Offline dwarf

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Re: Rzeźbienie w medalionie
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2021, 05:50:04 am »
Contorniates are not yet fully understood in numismatics. Attached some links for reading - further googling for "contorniate palm" will show more results
https://www.unimuseum.uni-tuebingen.de/fileadmin/content/05_Forschung_Lehre/Publikationen/medaillons_und_kontorniaten.pdf
https://www.academia.edu/41285368/Neros_Revival_in_der_Sp%C3%A4tantike_die_Kontorniaten

The palm definitely refers either to "good luck" or to "victory"
Contorniates minted for chariote races usually show a palm branch.
In our case it was engraved later so the medaillon might serve as price.
The medal itself didn´t need to be precious as such - monetary rewards or the like might have been seperate - as it is today.

Regards
Klaus
Who would like to transfer the Polish Forum into plain English - useful for everyone.

Offline Lech Stępniewski

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Re: Rzeźbienie w medalionie
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2021, 08:31:40 am »
Contorniates are not yet fully understood in numismatics.

Yes, I know. Thanks for the links.

The palm definitely refers either to "good luck" or to "victory"

I am not sure because I am still not convinced that these clumsy lines are actually "palm branch". At least not always. In "Medaillons und Kontorniaten" you linked to there are pictures of 20 contorniates and some sort of "marks" are only on half of them. Mostly similar to "letters" (probably punch-marked) and only 2-3 "branches" made by cutting (?).

In our case it was engraved later so the medaillon might serve as price.

I agree that these marks were made later but I still see no sens in this procedure if we assume that it was prize. What would be wrong if competitor receive medallion or contorniate without mark? It would be nice to engrave winner's name or something like that. But not clumsy "branch".

Still mysterious for me.
Lech Stępniewski
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Offline dwarf

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Re: Rzeźbienie w medalionie
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2021, 09:45:59 am »
Quote
Still mysterious for me.

Get the book by Andreas Alföldi for a first good reading and then dive into discussions  :)

But it is clearly a palm branch and these contorniates were used as prices - wether produced directly or later transformed by adding the branch
https://tinyurl.com/x7wwvw3

The "letters" usually are "PE" as monogramm, most probably meaning "Petrus" - thus leading to Christianity.
But this leads to a totally different use of those contorniates - which makes it so exiting

Offline DzikiZdeb

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Re: Rzeźbienie w medalionie
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2021, 10:31:12 am »
The "letters" usually are "PE" as monogramm, most probably meaning "Petrus" - thus leading to Christianity.
I don't think "PE" is an early Christian sign. There are a lot of symbols not very recognizable nowadays like peacock, pelican or anchor, but "PE" is not among them.

Offline Lech Stępniewski

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Re: Rzeźbienie w medalionie
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2021, 10:42:38 am »
But it is clearly a palm branch and these contorniates were used as prices - wether produced directly or later transformed by adding the branch

Would you really like to get such a ridiculous prize?

https://tinyurl.com/x7wwvw3

Hilarious!

Maybe these marks (I mean "branches" not "letters") were also made by children? Children sometimes spoil worthless coins just for fun or to get a token for game.
Lech Stępniewski
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Offline Lech Stępniewski

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Re: Rzeźbienie w medalionie
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2021, 10:52:31 am »
I don't think "PE" is an early Christian sign.

I agree. Contorniates are sometimes connected with some kind of "pagan revival". State, however, is already Christian, so if someone wanted to make such contorniate more Christian, he could easily put cross, chi-rho, IHS etc., not enigmatic "PE". Why "Petrus"? "Jesus" fits better.
Lech Stępniewski
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Poland

 

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