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Author Topic: Palmyra  (Read 9296 times)

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Offline *Alex

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Palmyra
« on: May 16, 2015, 08:06:48 am »
Another famous archaeological site is now at risk.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-32748392

*Alex

Offline SC

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Re: Palmyra
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2015, 04:46:01 am »
It begins....

Syrian forces have pulled out of Tadmor.  IS (ISIS, ISIL, Daesh, whatever you feel like calling them) has access to the Palmyra site.

Shawn
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Offline David Atherton

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Re: Palmyra
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2015, 05:10:41 am »
It begins....

Syrian forces have pulled out of Tadmor.  IS (ISIS, ISIL, Daesh, whatever you feel like calling them) has access to the Palmyra site.

Shawn


We may be on the brink of witnessing one of the worst and largest systematic destructions of an archaeological site in modern times. The lives and cultural heritage lost to ISIS will never be replaced. A human tragedy on an epic scale.


Offline helvetica

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Re: Palmyra
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2015, 06:42:45 pm »
The Palmyra news on BBC kept me awake until gone 7 a.m. the other night, I just kept seeing the images they showed from Nimrud, of some barbaric, masked thug hammering a head off an ancient temple, with the excuse that it is "idolatry".
This is so terrible, it makes me physically sick.
Just as bad is the fact that they are taking whatever treasure - statues, artifacts, coins etc. from the museums they plunder - they can carry and are selling them on the black market to get money for arms.
The Director of Museums in Syria wrote that he and his staff are worried sick and are trying to get as much as they can to safety.

Offline orfew

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Re: Palmyra
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2015, 07:02:24 pm »
This really is sickening, all of that irreplaceable history lost.

Offline L.C.Sulla

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Re: Palmyra
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2015, 05:37:14 am »
As far as this might be upsetting, these type of news are to become “daily” news, or “no news” as the Syrian, Iraqi, Libyan, Yemen (and to a lesser extent also Lebanese, Saudi and Egyptian/Sinai Peninsula) wars are “serious business” that have opened the gates to numerous demons related to the Middle East.  Many historic sites were already damaged as a result of the fighting (not deliberate destruction) - Krak des Chevaliers, the Halab (Aleppo) citadel, the Umayyad mosque in Damascus etc. The markets are flooded with artifacts that have clear middle eastern origin and as the economy, and any form of stability, are all but ruined (while any central authority vanishes as far as poliecing in concerned)  - people will turn into the “safe refuge” of making money from antique looting (check VCoin for the typical Syrian-Roman provintial coinage and the Roman Egyptian coinage), human trafficing (watch the news about the Italian, Greek and Spanish immigrant crisis) and weapons dealing (so far 4 regular, heavily armed, armies have almost completely disintegrated and the numerous amount of explosives and ammunition looted from their stores would become a source of income to those who no longer have anythong else to make a living from).

Add to all of this the fact that the somewhat random ISIS enterprises of demolishing Shia shrines infront of the cameras made the hit parade worldwide thus turning this vandalic acts their trade marks  - and you can expect all but good things happening. No one cares anymore – I mean no one who actually can make a change. As far as ancient sites are related – one may better hope that ISIS would “sttle down” as a political soverin entity rather then that its foes fight for Palmyra (or one of the many other world historic treasures in the region). Sadly, from the military point of view, they (ISIS) are clearly here to stay for quite some time.
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Offline Andrew McCabe

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Re: Palmyra
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2015, 05:46:12 am »
As far as this might be upsetting, these type of news are to become “daily” news, or “no news” as the Syrian, Iraqi, Libyan, Yemen (and to a lesser extent also Lebanese, Saudi and Egyptian/Sinai Peninsula) wars are “serious business” that have opened the gates to numerous demons related to the Middle East.  Many historic sites were already damaged as a result of the fighting (not deliberate destruction) - Krak des Chevaliers, the Halab (Aleppo) citadel, the Umayyad mosque in Damascus etc. The markets are flooded with artifacts that have clear middle eastern origin and as the economy, and any form of stability, are all but ruined (while any central authority vanishes as far as poliecing in concerned)  - people will turn into the “safe refuge” of making money from antique looting (check VCoin for the typical Syrian-Roman provintial coinage and the Roman Egyptian coinage), human trafficing (watch the news about the Italian, Greek and Spanish immigrant crisis) and weapons dealing (so far 4 regular, heavily armed, armies have almost completely disintegrated and the numerous amount of explosives and ammunition looted from their stores would become a source of income to those who no longer have anythong else to make a living from).

Add to all of this the fact that the somewhat random ISIS enterprises of demolishing Shia shrines infront of the cameras made the hit parade worldwide thus turning this vandalic acts their trade marks  - and you can expect all but good things happening. No one cares anymore – I mean no one who actually can make a change. As far as ancient sites are related – one may better hope that ISIS would “sttle down” as a political soverin entity rather then that its foes fight for Palmyra (or one of the many other world historic treasures in the region). Sadly, from the military point of view, they (ISIS) are clearly here to stay for quite some time.

Well said.

Palmyra will may be bulldozed sometime in the next few weeks. In about 25 years time, some philanthropist will might donate a billion dollars to have the ruins immaculately restored from the rubble, with a landmark museum beside them in his name. The ruins will be in a lot worse original condition than today, but the restoration will may make them seem better. In 50 years time, no will ever remember that the site had ever been destroyed this year, just as no-one remembers that Pompeii and Herculaneum were both extensively rebuilt from scattered stones. The Banyan Buddhas will somehow be rebuilt perhaps 100 years from now. It's easily enough done, much less work than involved in relocating the Abu Simbel temples from the Aswan dam flooding. Hardly anyone now notices Abu Simbel's relocation.

This is how humanity progresses (no irony intended). There's phases of destruction, less and less often, and phases of restoration, more and more thoroughly done. I'm pretty relaxed about it all as I've seen the wheel turn on such matters so many times. In the end it's only stones, at a site which has already been archaeologically assessed. I can't rank stones above the current lives and current cultures being destroyed by IS right now.

Offline L.C.Sulla

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Re: Palmyra
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2015, 01:47:27 pm »
Apparently the famous ruins of Palmyra are still intact as they just "hosted" one the gruesome spectacles ISIS is known for, even more then of ruining ancient cites. More pictures and video might be found by those with the strong stomach.

Earlier this week another ISIS video showed a public destruction of some items of the famous Palmyrian tomb sculpts  - allegedly after being caught with an antique smuggler.



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Offline Andrew McCabe

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Re: Palmyra
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2015, 06:19:50 am »
Khalid al-Asaad
1932-2015.

The famous archaeologist Khalid al-Asaad [sic, note spelling], aged 83, was this week decapitated by Daesh and his body hung from a street pillar in Palmyra. Asaad spent over 50 years working at the Palmyra UNESCO World Heritage site, alongside U.S., French, German, and Swiss archaeological missions. He wrote many books and scientific texts either individually or in cooperation with other Syrian or foreign archeologists. Among his titles are "The Palmyra Sculptures," and "Zenobia, the Queen of Palmyra and the Orient."  Asaad as "one of the most important pioneers in Syrian archaeology in the 20th century."  Asaad had been in charge of Palmyra's archaeological site for four decades until 2003, when he retired. After retiring, al-Asaad worked as an expert with the Antiquities and Museums Department. Asaad, who held a diploma in history and education from the University of Damascus, also discovered several ancient cemeteries, caves and the Byzantine cemetery in the garden of the Museum of Palmyra. "Al-Asaad was a treasure for Syria and the world".

If it seems difficult to put this appalling act in context, Al-Asaad was a similar same age and a similar archaeological career path as many of our more venerable archaeological-numismatists who continue to work in their golden years, one could think of many in our community who are still working into their eighties. So this was an act aimed at us, and the choice of an especially venerable target was no bureaucratic random choice of Daesh, it was so intended to provoke. I hope it does provoke actual action and not just more hand wringing.

Offline OldMoney

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Re: Palmyra
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2015, 08:08:29 am »
Disgusting.
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Offline *Alex

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Re: Palmyra
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2015, 11:38:14 am »
Latest news ....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34043676

The temple (below) was largely intact before the city was captured.

Alex

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Re: Palmyra
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2015, 01:31:42 pm »
I was at the Louvre last week. The winged bulls from Khorsabad along with other works from Nimrud and other Mesopotamian sites are breathtaking. As I stood marveling at them, feeling thankful for their presence, a multi-generational family from the Middle East came into the room. All members of the family, but especially the oldest generation, were overcome by emotion. They were actually crying tears - of joy, but with underlying sorrow - as they posed for photos next to the monuments. Everyone in the room felt privy to a private moment we could all identify with. I won't forget that moment for the rest of my life.

Offline L.C.Sulla

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Re: Palmyra
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2015, 10:23:40 am »
"No friend ever served me, and no enemy ever wronged me, whom I have not repaid in full" (L.C.Sulla)

Offline Jschulze

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Re: Palmyra
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2015, 07:32:37 pm »
Very cool photos in the below linked article of Palmyra in the 1860s-1870s.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/anupkaphle/rare-pictures-capture-the-former-beauty-of-palmyra#.aa7MLbKAq3

Offline gallienus1

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Re: Palmyra
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2015, 06:58:04 am »
All of us here on this board love and respect that ancient past and do our best to protect the fragments from it we have in our collections.

Palmyra has suffered terrible damage, but so has Europe, much of the Mid-East and South East Asia over the last 100 years. The deliberate destruction of Caligula's barges by the retreating German forces, the bombing of Monte Cassino by the Allies, the total ruin of the Buddhas of Bamiyan by the Taliban and the looting of Angkor Wat are but 4 sad examples.

The artifacts of past are always being slowly but continually lost. Hopefully the written word, and the images in digital format will remain. A shadow of a shadow of what was once real and experienced by our ancestors.

I fear the world is getting more unstable and we are approaching another era of crisis. The pace of loss can then be expected to increase.

It makes the custodianship of the pieces in our possession all the more important to the future.

Steve

Offline David Atherton

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Re: Palmyra
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2015, 07:55:41 am »
Quote from: gallienus1 on August 30, 2015, 06:58:04 am
All of us here on this board love and respect that ancient past and do our best to protect the fragments from it we have in our collections.

Palmyra has suffered terrible damage, but so has Europe, much of the Mid-East and South East Asia over the last 100 years. The deliberate destruction of Caligula's barges by the retreating German forces, the bombing of Monte Cassino by the Allies, the total ruin of the Buddhas of Bamiyan by the Taliban and the looting of Angkor Wat are but 4 sad examples.

The artifacts of past are always being slowly but continually lost. Hopefully the written word, and the images in digital format will remain. A shadow of a shadow of what was once real and experienced by our ancestors.

I fear the world is getting more unstable and we are approaching another era of crisis. The pace of loss can then be expected to increase.

It makes the custodianship of the pieces in our possession all the more important to the future.

Steve

The Allies during WWII also bombed Pompeii, believe it or not. http://www.getty.edu/art/exhibitions/pompeii/destruction.html

Offline Carausius

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Re: Palmyra
« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2015, 04:28:28 pm »
In the 17th century,  the Venetians launched a mortar attack on the Ottoman stronghold on the Athenian Acropolis, igniting the devastating explosion of munitions stored in the Parthenon. Until that day, the exterior colonnade of the Parthenon was essentially intact. Unfortunately, this sort of thing has been perpetrated by mankind for millenia.

Offline David Atherton

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Offline L.C.Sulla

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Re: Palmyra
« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2015, 04:46:14 am »
I see that many tend to compare the destruction of the (now two) Roman temples in Palmyra as well as Assyrian sites, by The Islamic State to the various disastrous destructions of other “jewel in the crown” sites in latest centuries such as

The Parthenon - lets face it: it hurts so much mainly since it nearly survived intact into modern times. Had it been destroyed by  the Crusaders, like the Mausoleum of Halicarnassus, for instance, it would have been easier to accept.

The many medieval and Baroque cities of Central, Eastern and Western Europe destroyed by aerial and land bombardments during the 2nd World War (and with some French and Belgian ones – also during the first).

ALSO – in many countries ancient sites are systematically destroyed for the most simple reasons – such as modern development (same as was in Europe in the 19th century) – these are often ancient sites with no celebrity status: city walls in remote towns, entire segments of Roman roads and even ancient mosques and houses in Mecca Saudi Arabia.  

Etc. etc.

BUT – there is a big difference here: had we spoken about the damage caused to the ancient core of Aleppo, Homs or even to the Kerac des Chevaliers fortress (all damaged by fighting)- this was a similar case. However all the “who wants to blow up/bulldoze an ancient site for the camera?” twisted reality show acts we witness, are a deliberate act of vandalism meant to publicly destroy a symbolic structure of what is regarded as an “enemies culture”. If we really look for parallel actions from the near Western worlds history we may find parallel actions in acts such as the burning down of the Palaces of the Tulleries during the Paris Commune in 1870, the deliberate demolition of some symbolic churches (especially in Russia) by the Bolshevik regime or (as Islamic state apologetics might have claimed) the systematic destruction of Nazi era buildings and symbols in Germany by the Allies in the immediate post war years.

Anyway – its 2015 now and these actions take a different meaning: The Islamic State elements responsible do not really care for the “purity” of the landscape – they just look for publicity. Attracting the attention of the millions of people who are attracted to nihilism, wish to cause pain to whatever real/imaginary enemies they might have – people who tend to admire such ancient relics from the past. At least that is how I see it.  
"No friend ever served me, and no enemy ever wronged me, whom I have not repaid in full" (L.C.Sulla)

Offline Robert_Brenchley

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Re: Palmyra
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2015, 06:00:18 pm »
This is an extension of the Wahhabi tradition of destroying shrines. They've exported it beyond the borders of Saudi Arabia, and turned on pre-Islamic sites, but there's hardly a word said when it's Islamic sites they're destroying. Thy're two sides of the same coin.

https://ballandalus.wordpress.com/2014/08/05/the-islamic-states-isis-destruction-of-shrines-in-historical-perspective/
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Offline Bill W4

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Re: Palmyra
« Reply #20 on: August 31, 2015, 06:41:09 pm »
I am far from a religious person; but I am reminded of Ecclesiastes, chapter 1 verse 9;" there is no new thing under the sun".  And verse 11" there is no remembrance of former things".   Been unfortunately this way for a long time.  We are what we are.
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Offline David Atherton

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Re: Palmyra
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2015, 08:39:32 am »
https://twitter.com/UNOSAT/status/638463273944391680/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc^

Satellite image of the Temple of Bel destruction.

Offline *Alex

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Re: Palmyra
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2015, 08:21:35 am »
Latest sad news ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34150905

If this continues unchecked all that will be left of Palmyra for future generations will be fading photographs ....

Alex


Offline Vladislav D

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Re: Palmyra
« Reply #23 on: October 04, 2015, 10:07:44 pm »
Latest sad news ... Islamic State Blows Up Ancient Arch Of Triumph In Palmyra
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34440759

Offline *Alex

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Re: Palmyra
« Reply #24 on: October 05, 2015, 10:02:10 am »

Offline Vladislav D

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Re: Palmyra
« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2016, 08:22:12 am »

Offline ThatParthianGuy

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Palmyra Syria Recaptured from ISIS
« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2016, 07:22:41 pm »

Offline SC

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Re: Palmyra
« Reply #27 on: March 29, 2016, 11:09:28 am »
SC
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Offline v-drome

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Re: Palmyra
« Reply #28 on: March 29, 2016, 02:01:10 pm »

 

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