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Author Topic: Badly Tooled Coins Here  (Read 160730 times)

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Offline mwilson603

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Re: Badly Tooled Coins Here
« Reply #75 on: September 02, 2010, 05:56:56 pm »
Hadrian sestertius, obverse tooled and smoothed. 
First, please let me make it clear that I don't approve of tooling in any way, and I weep for the coin and associated history that will have been destroyed by the toolers actions.  However this one is certainly more sympathetically tooled than most I have seen.  I would go as far as to say that whoever tooled this actually has quite a nice touch!
regards
Mark

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: Badly Tooled Coins Here
« Reply #76 on: September 02, 2010, 06:31:01 pm »
...I would go as far as to say that whoever tooled this actually has quite a nice touch!
regards
Mark

Unfortunately this person seems to be making a career of tooling large Roman bronze.  I have seen a few dozen examples that I am confident are from this same hand. 
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Offline maridvnvm

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Re: Badly Tooled Coins Here
« Reply #77 on: September 07, 2010, 01:43:00 pm »
How about and URBS ROMA medallion...

Martin

Ghengis_Jon

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Badly Tooled Coins Here
« Reply #78 on: September 13, 2010, 07:10:33 am »
Sept Severus and Trajan.

Offline Mark Z

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Re: Badly Tooled Coins Here
« Reply #79 on: September 14, 2010, 12:46:13 pm »
Just stumbled across this one this morning on eBay. The seller had many more but now they have been pulled, even from the completed listings page.

Too bad, because they were entertaining, to say the least! ;)

EDIT: Popped up in the completed listings area.

EDIT: eBay seller is on the NFSL: sylvester.ekaterina

EDIT: Sold for $143 USD.

mz

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: Badly Tooled Coins Here
« Reply #80 on: September 14, 2010, 01:26:11 pm »
There doesn't seem to be anything at all original on the last one.  It is probably carved on a slug.
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Offline Mark Z

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Re: Badly Tooled Coins Here
« Reply #81 on: September 14, 2010, 05:29:17 pm »
Here's another from the same (eBay) seller.

EDIT: eBay seller is on the NFSL: sylvester.ekaterina

mz

Offline Mark Z

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Re: Badly Tooled Coins Here
« Reply #82 on: September 14, 2010, 07:36:02 pm »
How about and URBS ROMA medallion...

Martin

I have to admit, I really like the slack-jawed, mouth-breathing Roma depicted here  :P

The multitude of square teets on the she-wolf (or whatever that is supposed to be) is attractive, too  :P

mz


Offline Mark Z

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Re: Badly Tooled Coins Here
« Reply #83 on: September 14, 2010, 09:18:16 pm »
This is not a coin but it is definitely funny!

Same seller: sylvester.ekaterina

Description:

ORGINAL ROMAN bone head

PERIODE :100AD

LONG: 1,9CM

ORGINAL FIND CONDITION .

WHEN THE AUCTION HIGHER THEN 50,00 EURO ,THEN ONLY BE REGISTRATED SENDING !!!!

I WILL SHIPP WORLDWIDE


mz

p.s. this guy is a goldmine.

Offline Mark Z

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Re: Badly Tooled Coins Here
« Reply #84 on: September 14, 2010, 09:25:52 pm »
One more from the same seller, this time a completed listing:

Check out the "cop-stache" on Trajan  :P

You know, it just occurred to me why all the reverse images seem to be wearing what appear to be clogs: the seller is in the Netherlands! ;D

mz

Ghengis_Jon

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Badly Tooled Coins Here
« Reply #85 on: September 22, 2010, 07:48:39 am »

Offline slokind

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Re: Badly Tooled Coins Here
« Reply #86 on: September 22, 2010, 04:38:41 pm »
That bemused wolf is one of the funniest things I've seen in a long time.
Pat L.

Ghengis_Jon

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Badly Tooled Coins Here
« Reply #87 on: October 04, 2010, 07:17:57 am »
Agrippina Senior, seller described as tooled and smoothed.


Offline Dino

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Re: Badly Tooled Coins Here
« Reply #88 on: October 04, 2010, 08:20:54 am »
Question:  Is it safe to assume that if it's tooled that it's also repatinated?

Ghengis_Jon

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Re: Badly Tooled Coins Here
« Reply #89 on: October 08, 2010, 08:16:19 am »
I wouldn't go that far.   Sometimes its just touched up with a darkener like Dellars or Jax on the tooled area.

Once, long ago, I bought a lot of 50 uncleaneds to idle away some winter hours.  As I recall, there was nothing remarkable about the lot, except for what I presumed to be 'throw in' by the seller.  The coin was heavily worn, not quite a slug.  Whomever tooled it harshly with a dremel like instrument and then spray painted it flat black.  It caused me concern, thinking what other crap would I find seeded in the batch.  I innocently asked the seller about the coin and he quite proudly said he added it to the lot as a 'sweetner' to insure I was happy with the coins.  I don't think he did the deed, but obviously he had no clue about ancient coins.

I digress.  Sometimes a coin is completely repatinated and can be difficult to tell unless its in hand when it becomes apparent.  Thats especially annoying to me if it isn't disclosed at the time of sale.  I had bought a beautiful Gallienus for my zoo and what I thought was a flan flaw turned out to be a Jax droplet.  I was furious (a good portion at myself for being duped) and almost returned the coin.  Luckily there had only been some field smoothing and no tooling.  I took a dremel and a rough/soft buffing attachment to remove the blob.  When I buffed down the rest of the reverse with a finisher, I pleasantly found I had a tiger instead of a panther, which explained the odd obverse legend.   Found a panther, expected a mule, got a tigress.

Offline Galaxy

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Re: Badly Tooled Coins Here
« Reply #90 on: October 08, 2010, 08:56:47 am »
Since tooling scrapes away the surfaces of the metal itself (when you only scrape the patina it is considered smoothing) , it is thus impossible to have a tooled coin with a patina unless it is artificially applied. To me, oftentimes the patinas of tooled coins are more evident/obvious than the tooling itself.

Offline Galaxy

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Re: Badly Tooled Coins Here
« Reply #91 on: October 08, 2010, 08:58:40 am »
And yes : Dellers, over the entire surface of a coin or a large area, is ALSO repatination. Some people think Dellers is a magical substance (and used sparingly it probably is) but it is still repatination.

Offline areich

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Re: Badly Tooled Coins Here
« Reply #92 on: October 09, 2010, 12:13:26 pm »
Sometimes it's literally paint they use.
Andreas Reich

Offline Galaxy

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Re: Badly Tooled Coins Here
« Reply #93 on: October 09, 2010, 12:33:12 pm »
The most grevious example I have seen used black shoe polish, both to color the surfaces of the coin and to 'fill' the pits. The finished product was then waxed. It looked as horrible as you can probably imagine, but ...well, there's still a market for those sorts of things, too, if some of prices these monstrosities sell for on e*ay are any indication.

Offline maridvnvm

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Re: Badly Tooled Coins Here
« Reply #94 on: October 11, 2010, 05:17:54 am »
YUCK!

Ghengis_Jon

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Re: Badly Tooled Coins Here
« Reply #95 on: October 19, 2010, 07:51:00 am »
Nerva - described by seller as tooled.

Offline Mark Z

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Re: Badly Tooled Coins Here
« Reply #96 on: October 19, 2010, 12:06:30 pm »
Nerva - described by seller as tooled.

If he could only see this coin, Nerva would be proud of his rhinoplasty!

mz

Offline Aarmale

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Re: Badly Tooled Coins Here
« Reply #97 on: October 19, 2010, 05:29:37 pm »
How 'bout these....
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Offline mwilson603

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Re: Badly Tooled Coins Here
« Reply #98 on: October 20, 2010, 09:05:10 am »
At the risk of offending some, I almost think this thread should be renamed "Heavily Tooled Coins Here".  As to be honest, whilst I abhor the practice demonstrated in these coins, I have to say that some of them are not "Badly Tooled" but actually tooled very well.  i.e. on some of them a certain touch, or artistic skill, is shown.  If some of these engravers turned their skills to legitimate work, I would be pleased to buy their products.
regards
Mark

Offline Andrew McCabe

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Re: Badly Tooled Coins Here
« Reply #99 on: October 20, 2010, 09:29:47 am »
Below is a small sample of dreadfully tooled and altered coins currently on offer by a major European auction house (2nd November). In line with Forum policy I'm not naming the auction or linking to it, but I can assure you that many more than the five coins illustrated below are tooled

Supposed M.AVF As:
This is tooled and altered possibly from a P.SVLA As whose distinctive style it shares, compare my untooled P.SVLA below
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ahala_rome/4004814634/

Supposed PVR As
Clearly tooled - see the obverse portrait, and may be an altered type too. I am not sure this coin started life as the scarce PVR.

Supposed Mamilia Semis
This coin looks badly tooled and looks nothing like the style of a genuine coin, and is also half the weight. I think this may be altered from a light coin of a completely different type. See my good example of Mamilia Semis, twice as heavy and completely, completely different in style and every details eg the design of the prow, the portrait.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ahala_rome/3351682888/

Gryphon As
The nice gryphon is in complete contrast to the worn remaining reverse, for example the letter ROMA is completely wrong style and is a new addition

M.ABVR GEM Quadrans
See from the obverse that the head was badly worn flat, and that the whole obverse has been chiselled into. If one knows the least thing about ancient coins you can see that the raised edge on the obverse - most obviously at 10pm - is essentially impossible on a genuine coin as obverse dies on ancient coins are cut-into flat metal rather than being cut-out-of a round bar.

I'm really amazed a respected auction house would accept such coins for sale.

 

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