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Author Topic: A Clodius Albinus As  (Read 2320 times)

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Online maridvnvm

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A Clodius Albinus As
« on: February 16, 2008, 11:26:52 am »
I just wanted to share my first bronze of Clodius Albinus. The overall condition isn't great but the portrait is decent and there is enough of the legends and devices to provide an attribution.

AE As
Obv:– D CLO SEPT ALB CAES, Bare headed head right
Rev:FORT REDVCI COS II /S C, Fortuna, seated left holding rudder and cornucopia
Minted in Rome. A.D. 194 - A.D. 195
Reference:– BMCRE 547 note. RIC 59 (Rare)
Weight 8.41 g. Size 24.03 mm.



This example has CLO visible rather than the usual CL with BMCRE and RIC citing an example from the Lawrence collection, which BMCRE states is tooled.

Perhaps I should have posted in "Best Worst Coin of the Day!".

Regards,
Martin

Offline monty

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Re: A Clodius Albinus As
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2008, 11:32:35 am »
A nice coin in any grade. :)

Yours has a charm about it you dont always get with high grade examples. Was it a local find?

 

Online maridvnvm

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Re: A Clodius Albinus As
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2008, 11:34:17 am »
It was purchased from a dealer who had it mis-attributed as an As of Septimius Severus.
Regards,
Martin

Offline monty

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Re: A Clodius Albinus As
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2008, 11:37:03 am »
Very well done! ;D

I'm sure Septimus wouldn't have been happy about that attribution!

Offline Akropolis

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Re: A Clodius Albinus As
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2008, 11:51:48 am »
Is there an "SC" visible on the reverse? Should there be?
PeteB

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Re: A Clodius Albinus As
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2008, 11:56:07 am »
S C is in exe. I have modified my original post accordingly.
Regards,
Martin

Offline curtislclay

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Re: A Clodius Albinus As
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2008, 01:09:42 pm »
Martin,

Not CLO but CL; the letter you interpret as an O is actually the L.  Same dies as J. Hirsch 24, 1909, Weber 1793, Cat. 327 in my Oxford thesis.

The L.A. Lawrence coin with CLO is now in Oxford, and is indeed tooled from CL, as I could tell from other specimens from the same obv. die.

The Fortuna Redux type is common on Albinus' sestertii, but rare on his denarii (4 spec. in Reka Devnia hoard) and on his asses.  In my thesis I catalogued just eight specimens of the As, from two rev. dies.  One of the rev. dies has wheel under seat, the other, from which your coin was struck, omits the wheel.  Further specimens have turned up since 1972, but no new rev. dies.

Ragged flan as often and some pitting, but really quite a presentable specimen, in my opinion!
Curtis Clay

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Re: A Clodius Albinus As
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2008, 01:59:46 pm »
Curtis,
Thanks for the correction and additional information.
Your encyclopedic knowledge is, as always, quite astounding. Your willingness to share it is very much appreciated. It certainly adds to my interest in this coin.
I must admit that it went out on the limb a bit with this one, buying from relatively poor images and a misattribution, leading to quite a low price.
Best regards,
Martin

Offline Rupert

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Re: A Clodius Albinus As
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2008, 04:12:32 pm »
Well, that goes to show once more that the best method to make a bargain is to know more than the seller.

Congratulations,

Rupert
Ducunt volentem fata, nolentem trahunt.

Offline moonmoth

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Re: A Clodius Albinus As
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2008, 04:52:25 pm »
Yes, nice work, Martin.  You must be pleased with that coin.
"... A form of twisted symbolical bedsock ... the true purpose of which, as they realised at first glance, would never (alas) be revealed to mankind."

Offline ROMA

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Re: A Clodius Albinus As
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2008, 05:13:02 pm »
Does anyone actually let someone know when they have misattributed a coin that is selling for well below market value? My question has nothing to do with this situation as i dont know enough to comment, and i do feel that if purchasing from a big dealer its tough to have sympathy for such situations, but say the coin(s) are from someone who recently received them as an inheritence, or some similer situation involving an uneducated, but honest person who is somewhat relying on you to give them a fair shake. I understand its great to get great deals, but there is a line that I think shouldnt be crossed as well. I don't think pats on the back are due in that situation.
Adversus solem ne loquitor

Offline curtislclay

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Re: A Clodius Albinus As
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2008, 06:15:23 pm »
Decades ago Simon Bendall explained to me the policy of Baldwin's in London, with which I agree.

If a member of the public brings coins to a dealer, it is incumbent upon the dealer to offer a fair wholesale price for them, including the rarities which the seller may in many cases not have recognized.

If another dealer or supplier offered coins to Baldwin's, however, then Baldwin's was under no obligation to point out unrecognized rarities, and their sole motive would be to acquire the coins for the lowest possible price.

I personally feel that a COLLECTOR, buying coins from a dealer or at auction, is in a situation analogous to Baldwin's buying from another dealer, and should act the same way: don't point out unrecognized rarities and pay as little as possible for coins you want.

In the case of an ignorant seller offering valuable items on eBay, I think two considerations speak against notifying him of their apparent value.  (1) Apart from ignorance, it may be greed which impels him to try eBay; he's hoping to get a retail price from collectors rather than the wholesale price he knows a dealer would offer him.  If he doesn't want to pay for expertise from a dealer, does he deserve to get it free from you?  (2) In many cases other buyers too will notice the misattributed rarity and it will accordingly fetch an appropriate price in spite of the seller's ignorance.

Finding unrecognized rarites and buying them for a fraction of their true value is, I believe, one of the two primary motives that generally lie behind the urge to collect.  I, for one, am unwilling to renounce this satisfaction, and to replace it by another motivation, namely to make sure that dealers and auctioneers always get the full amount their items are worth and never sell items too cheaply!
Curtis Clay

Offline Rupert

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Re: A Clodius Albinus As
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2008, 06:58:57 pm »
I read an interesting article lately about what really makes people happy; it has attracted some interest of scientists and has been investigated in the last years, after it had been observed that people who have become paralyzed through an accident and people who have won a fortune in the lottery do hardly differ in their level of happiness two years after the incident.
One thing that has been found out is that happiness is a short sensation but not a steady state, which explains why buying a Ferrari makes most people happy for some weeks but not for years - they just get used to it, it loses its thrill.
Two important things that make people happy are
a) the feeling that something has run way better than expected, and
b) the feeling of getting a reward - from themselves or others.
So an auction in which I get a coin cheap that nobody else really recognized is a real moment of happiness in both of these aspects, and that's exactly what I'm feeling in such a situation, I admit.

Rupert
Ducunt volentem fata, nolentem trahunt.

Ariminum

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Re: A Clodius Albinus As
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2013, 12:18:42 pm »
Hello
Based on Mr Clays request on a german forum I post this coin recently added to my collection:

Obv. : D CL SEPT AL-BIN CAES, Bare head right
Rev. : FORT REDVCI COS II, S-C, Fortuna seated left, holding rudder on globe and cornucopiae

RIC 59 with wheel under chair

Ariminum

Offline curtislclay

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Re: A Clodius Albinus As
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2013, 01:13:29 pm »
Thanks for posting here, which brings two advantages.

1. I don't have to repeat the information about rarity, already given to Martin G. above! Your specimen is from my o40/r54, both known dies but in a combination that I had not found by 1972.

2. I can print out a smaller image for my files, and more conveniently: for some years now I have been unable to download and print images directly from the Numismatikforum, but have to save them to my desktop and then print, resulting in inconveniently large images each occupying a full page!
Curtis Clay

Ariminum

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Re: A Clodius Albinus As
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2013, 02:05:17 pm »
Dear Mr. Clay

Like always thanks for Your comments and advices.
I wish You a happy easter weekend.

Ariminum

Offline Akropolis

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Re: A Clodius Albinus As
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2013, 02:11:49 pm »
"have to save them to my desktop and then print, resulting in inconveniently large images each occupying a full page!"
Hi Curtis: if you e-mail them to me, I would gladly reduce the image size to whatever you like and send them right back.
PeteB

 

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