Here's a Fun One: Roman Republic Denarius A. Antus Resto Overstruck?

[Pete B]

Hello Everyone! Here is somethng'fun': a C. Antus Resto Roman Republic denarius, dating to 47 BCE. It was described as "heavily scratched". The reverse shows a lot of undertype behind Herakles, not scratches. The lines are superimposed on each other, with all devices flattened (reminiscent of the 1787 Camel Head New Jersey Colonial coin-99% of those were overstruck on something). The undertype looks like a building or two, with a wide gully at the top. You will also notice some portions of lettering at the wide part of the rim upper-left. The obverse I thought was the product of a die in the process of chipping, but the truth is that the coiner didn't apply enough pressure to mitigate the undertype devices, so the edge of the legend didn't meet the field. 19mm diameter and it weighs 3.1g. I had to use this background  for scanning; otherwise I'd have to strip it.... Any thoughts?

[djmacdo]

I do not think overstruck, but rather corroded and harshly cleaned.

[Pete B]

Oh, it's all of that, but the undertype is undeniable. I'm wondering if it were from somewhere else

[PMah]

I do not see the undertype.   This is a Cr455/2.    C Antius Cf Restio -- Jugate heads of the Dei Penates right / Hercules walking right, holding trophy with left hand, cloak over arm, club in right.   They are often struck off-center and with weak strikes. I think part of what you see on Rx is Hercules 's rear-most leg, which  crosses behind in an odd angle to convey movement.
  It is not one of the rare overstrikes illustrated by Andrew McCabe,
ROMAN OVER ROMAN OVERSTRIKES IN THE LATER ROMAN REPUBLIC, RBN
 clxiv (2018). 
McCabe notes that most identified silver overstrikes from that period are on relatively recent host coins.
  But perhaps you could take a few higher resolution photos from a few angles?

[Pete B]

This is a scan, which does leave a lot to be desired. There is an "N", among parts of other letters, seen on the rim around 10:00 reverse. Someone thought that the lines seen in the field under Herakles' arm were scratches; they are actually superimposed devices. I do have the advantage of having in in hand; I'll try photography tomorrow

[Pete B]

The outlined shapes seen in the lower left field are superimposed on each other, not inscribed

[Pete B]

Here, you can see the failure of the die at the legend to meet the flan; obstructed...

[djmacdo]

Sorry, but to me it still looks like the result of heavy cleaning and scrapping.

[Pete B]

Yeah, it probably does, but I have the advantage of having it "in hand". I'll let you know what NGC says

[Ron C2]

I think it is overstruck, but I can't fathom what the host coin was.

[Pete B]

Hi Ron,

i was thinking this one (it kind of fits the bill), or something similar

[djmacdo]

I can see why you may think your coin (the second coin) is overstruck, but if it is the remains of the host coin are so faint as to be unidentifiable.  I am curious about the edge test at about 1-2 o'clock--does it show a copper core?  There is also some green on the reverse near a crack--perhaps also an indication we are dealing with a fourree rather than an overstrike.  Silver foil coatings of fourrees often show such cracks, easy to mistake for traces of overstriking.

As for the first coin, I see no real traces of overstriking, just the remains of scraping and rough cleaning.

All, of course, is just my opinion based on observation.  I may be wrong, and in fact often am.

Mac

[Ron C2]

Mac, he doesn't own the second coin, he thinks the second coin (from the NGC website) is a candidate for an undertype (though I disagree). 

I think an undertype is likely, as the obverse seems to show two distinct edge bead outlines, that do not complete a circle - they are quite offset from one another - and I see angular field artifacts on the reverse that look a little like a flattened temple reverse. 

If there is an undertype, it's too squished to every hope for a positive ID in my view.  But I would buy the theory the flan is recycled.

It's also a worn and destructively cleaned coin.

[djmacdo]

I love Greek overstrikes, but I have an entire box of coins that maybe overstruck or are certainly overstruck but the host coin is not identifable.  I hate those coins, but every once in a while I get them out and jope for insight--almost always in vain.

Mac