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Author Topic: The Antikythera mechanism  (Read 5380 times)

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Offline decius

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The Antikythera mechanism
« on: October 21, 2005, 11:17:48 am »
An neat article on the Antikythera mechanism.  I have read about this automata before but the article shows a good image as well. Enjoy!

http://www.economist.com/PrinterFriendly.cfm?story_id=1337165

Decius

Offline Marius

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Re: The Antikythera mechanism
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2005, 04:27:52 am »
Hi Decius,
I had never heard of this thing, and it is truly fantastic.  I started finding other articles on it.  To quote one

"Nothing like this instrument is preserved elsewhere. Nothing comparable to it is known. from any ancient scientific text or literary allusion. On the contrary, from all that we know of science and technology in the Hellenistic Age we should have felt that such a device could not exist." (full 6-page article here:  http://www.giant.net.au/users/rupert/kythera/kythera3.htm )

This quote sums up what I had thought:  I had no idea such a thing existed!  It really is a mystery - I hope more discoveries are made that show us more if this technology, it can't have existed in isolation.

Thanks for pointing this topic out.

Richard
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Offline LordBest

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Re: The Antikythera mechanism
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2005, 04:55:55 am »
An analysis of the construction methods and the precision with which the components were made and the final device assembled show it cannot have been a particularly uncommon device, it is clear the technology behind its use and construction had been perfected.
This is something a lot of sceptics forget, you do not get a perfectly constructed mechanical device appear out of nowhere with all the theories and practical methods fleshed out, it required development.
                                                    LordBest. 8)

Offline Jochen

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Re: The Antikythera mechanism
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2005, 07:00:46 pm »
For all interested in the mechanism of the Antikythera machine here a link I have found recently
http://www.math.sunysb.edu/~tony/whatsnew/column/antikytheraI-0400/kyth1.html

And here you can find many others (scroll a bit down!):  http://www.lextoday.de/Mechanismus_von_Antikythera 

Best regards

Offline Pep

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Re: The Antikythera mechanism
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2006, 04:16:55 am »
Another story on this device:

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=838112006

I think this is the first time I've read that it could be based on a heliocentric view.

Kevin  :)

peterpil19

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Re: The Antikythera mechanism
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2006, 09:29:13 am »
An analysis of the construction methods and the precision with which the components were made and the final device assembled show it cannot have been a particularly uncommon device, it is clear the technology behind its use and construction had been perfected.
This is something a lot of sceptics forget, you do not get a perfectly constructed mechanical device appear out of nowhere with all the theories and practical methods fleshed out, it required development.
 LordBest. 8)

Just being the devil's advocated for a moment for the sake of discussion:

1. If it were common, then why has only one of these been recovered since 1900 (forgive me if I'm wrong)?

2. Couldn't it be the creation and lifetime achievement of one intelligent inventor, like Leonardo Da Vinci rather than product of deliberate investment of funds and time into a team of "engineers"?

3. I'd love to believe that the Greeks had reached such a mechanical era, but wouldn't these devices have had numerous mentions in historical accounts?

--Peter

Offline Robert_Brenchley

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Re: The Antikythera mechanism
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2006, 04:54:18 am »
It could have been a new application of principles used elsewhere; are there any parallels?
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Offline Matthew Raica

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Re: The Antikythera mechanism
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2006, 08:50:38 pm »
No other item has been found that is remotely similiar to the Antikythera mechanism.  I saw a documentary on History International about it a few months back.  The story behind it's possible evolution is extraordinary.

basemetal

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Re: The Antikythera mechanism
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2006, 07:27:38 pm »
This is a copy of my post on Caligula's galleys, but I think it has some value and possible validity here:
Though the "roman emperors commission of engineering devices would include, simply rich and powerful Greeks and Romans in general"
 I think part of the problem with modern verification of advanced engineering techniques and similar is that they were never "mass produced".  There was no market for them or even a production system.
So many ancient "marvels" were produced more like an art comission piece than any commonly known new commercial thing.
How many individuals or groups needed a marvelous organ or a system of heating for moored ships?
Not many I guess.  And it was in an emperor's best intrest for the ahem...."shock and awe" value of such things to be high due to their uniqueness.
Many of these objects and techniques could be considered in the modern sense "proof of concept types".
Also, given that rich and powerful individuals commisioned them price was often no object.
So the chances of one or even a few prototypes surviving until modern times...........not that much, I'm afraid.

Offline Jochen

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Re: The Antikythera mechanism
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2006, 07:47:35 pm »
Hi Basemetal!

Then this would be similar to the first calculators (by Hahn 1774 f.e.) and the so-called world models (complicated clocks which show not only time, date and year, and sometimes begin and end of the world too but also the movements of the moon and the planets!) in the time of Baroque which usually ended in the cabinet of wonders of some dukes or kings because there was no economical need for such instruments in these times.

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Offline Matthew Raica

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Re: The Antikythera mechanism
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2006, 07:51:53 pm »
A larger version of the Antikythera mechanism was reputed to have been in a temple in Athens, I can't remember which.  The Anti. mech was supposedly a world clock that would in addition read the movements of the stars(based off of counts of the teeth on the gears, and how a modern replica supposedly works.)

Offline rick fox

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Re: The Antikythera mechanism
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2006, 06:04:26 pm »
2 different groups of scientists put forth 2 very different presentatons this week on what the mechanism did.  One group states it is a mathematical tool.  The other, actually built one and is showing it as a tool to predict eclipses and the motion of the 5 known planets (well 4 planets and the moon).
Iacta alea est  - 'The die has been cast' (Julius Caesar Jan 10, 49 BC Rubicon River, Italy)

Offline GMoneti

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Re: The Antikythera mechanism
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2006, 06:51:45 pm »
Georgi

basemetal

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Re: The Antikythera mechanism
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2006, 10:04:58 pm »
As an adjunct to my previous post.  Many marvelous things existed in the ancient world. Most were toys of the rich, commisioned by order of a "rich person"   Most no longer exist. 
On a more common note, there is much written about the "safety pin". It's even been documented on the History Channel. I saw it once before I got hooked by ancient coins.  A revolutionary concept that first came about in the 1800's.  Nowhere did the program mention fibulas.
In the ancient world there must have been so, so many objects invented that we would gasp at the genius behind their creation, that simply were so few that they are lost to history. They were never marketed or mass produced. They were either "one of a kind", or so little affected history that they escaped being recorded.
The proof is that in our modern world we ignore anomolies and view history as if it were actually as written.   I think that most here would agree given the explorative tendiences of the Roman empire and the cleverness of their maritime capabilities, that many times more than once, roman ships reached North or South America.   They suffered one or more of several consequences:
They made repairs and went back to Europe, or started out and didn't  enjoy the same luck as their first accidental crossing.
They stayed and were swallowed up by assimilation or by massacre  in the vastness of the western hemisphere.
They perished in sight of shore.
They DID NOT go back to rome and report a "New World" and subsiquently fleets of roman ships landed in the western hemisphere. What a fine alternate history that would make! Of course we would not be here to enjoy it.
Modern history accurately reflects the timeline in any history book.  Christoper Columbus, ventures forth with the backing of the Empire of Spain and through hook or crook, brings back reports of the "New World"
A classic metaphor is this:
It is in a way immaterial if Jesus Christ was the son of God, did what was recorded, or perhaps even existed, though it's overwhelmingly probable he did. 
The important point is that subsiquent history is mostly based on the "fact" that he did exist and was a deity on earth. It does not matter if he even existed or not, subsiquent history plays out as if he did exist and was as advertised.
Though the fleshing out of actual history, as in roman ships most probably did on occasion reach the western hemisphere, as did probably Greek and earlier and later ships, they had no or negligable effect on the way history played out.
I guess as a metaphor, what I'm trying to say is, the greeks may have had Ipods and the romans laptops, but history ignores this because if they did, they did not affect history in any way that is recorded.
This in no way blurs my vision of a roman ship, low on water and food, grounding near the present day Rio de Janerio.   The non-perishables they brought, the coins, the swords, the cooking pots may still be somewhere near there. We either haven't found them yet or won't.  But it will not change history except as an exciting footnote/revision.

 

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